Iver Johnson help

[Mgderf]

Hello,
My name is Mgderf, and I like guns.
Now that we have that out of the way,

I picked up an old Iver Johnson Top break revolver.
It has a flat mainspring, which I think makes it a version 1 or 2, but I don't know which.
There is no marking for a model or caliber.
A .32S&W long will fit diameter wise in the cylinder, but is waaay too long.
Entire projectile extends past the face of the cylinder.
I am guessing it is a .32S&W (short), but I'd like to know for sure.

 

[Mgderf]

Don't know if you can see it, but the serial number is 16
Also, I can't get a good picture of it, but there is a tiny x inside a square box stamped on top of the barrel after the patent dates.

 

[Coyote3855]

Probably .32 S&W. Owl facing forward means it's a black powder revolver, but you probably knew that.

 

[Mgderf]

I'm learning a lot about this little gem.
I figured it was bp, but wanted confirmation.
I am also looking for a place to find load data for black powder .32S&W, but I don't know of anyplace that published black powder data.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

I can't find my copy of Goforth so am going on memory... yours is a first model safety hammerless. Yes it's BP. You won't be able to duplicate the original load because they were using balloon head cases back then. Just stuff enough FFFG to reach the base of the seated bullet, plus a skosh more to lightly compress the load, and you'll be fine.

Here's a clue, maybe.

 

[Mgderf]

That is so cool to see. Thank you for posting this.

 

[Mgderf]

Just stuff enough FFFG to reach the base of the seated bullet, plus a skosh more to lightly compress the load, and you'll be fine.

Here's a clue, maybe.
View attachment 1083912

Would this work with Pyrodex FFFG?

 

[Mgderf]

I can't find my copy of Goforth so am going on memory... yours is a first model safety hammerless.
View attachment 1083912

I have been told the same thing elsewhere now, and I'm excited about this.
I have a 1st model example in great condition and it's serial number 16.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Beautiful condition and that serial number doe!

 

[Johnm1]

yours is a first model safety hammerless

I'm sure the Colonel is correct from what he sees. Another feature that will confirm a first model is if it has a single post latch. I can't quite tell from your photographs.

 

[Johnm1]

From this thread

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/iver-johnson-arms-cycle-works-production-date.856025/

Safety automatic hammerless
First Model (1895–1896), single post latch
Second Model (1897–1908), safety lever added to face of trigger
Third Model a.k.a. New Model (1909–1941), no safety lever on trigger, adapted for smokeless powder

Blued version are less common. One actually paid a premium for the blued finish. It is in wonderful shape.

And welcome to the forum!

 

[Mgderf]

I'm sure the Colonel is correct from what he sees. Another feature that will confirm a first model is if it has a single post latch. I can't quite tell from your photographs.

Yes, it is a single post latch.

 

[Johnm1]

Any background on this revolver? I'd be interested in hearing how it made it 127 years in such great shape. Or is it a random purchase with no story?

 

[Speedo66]

I'm learning a lot about this little gem.
I figured it was bp, but wanted confirmation.
I am also looking for a place to find load data for black powder .32S&W, but I don't know of anyplace that published black powder data.

Grips can be changed, but the fact that it has a leaf spring, not a coil spring, seems to be a determining factor for black powder.

 

[Mgderf]

Any background on this revolver? I'd be interested in hearing how it made it 127 years in such great shape. Or is it a random purchase with no story?

Bought through an online only auction.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Grips can be changed, but the fact that it has a leaf spring, not a coil spring, seems to be a determining factor for black powder.

Even that doesn't make it a dead ringer for being black powder, because the cylinders can be changed and supposedly they were interchangeable between smokeless and Black powder. So a black powder cylinder could be put in a smokeless frame, and miss lead the owner because he is looking at the main spring and grips.
The bolt cuts in the cylinder is the only part I would pay attention to as far as which powder to use in it. The Op's is definitely black powder do to not having the hard stop bolt cuts like modern revolvers have.
this is a smokeless cylinder for a small Iver Johnson of that time period.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

The two reliable tells are the absence (in BP revolvers) or the presence (in smokeless ones) of a third pin through the frame, above the front leg of the trigger guard bow; and the hammer spring (coil = smokeless, flat = BP)

 

[sobrbiker883]

First model, second variation hammerless safety automatic 32sw-probably 1896.
First variant had a “keeper lug” to hold cylinder on, single post thread on cylinder makes it second variant. Definitely black powder.
I have the same pistol I just resurrected, was my great grandfather’s carry gun.
I shot it last week with 4gr(v) 777 under MBC’s cowboy #18 BP pills. Found some real black and will try 6gr Swiss fffg next time out.
Cool little gun!

 

[sobrbiker883]

Finding brass was tough-I had two guys from a FB BP revo group donate me a few pcs each, and have 32pcs. Starline makes it, but is back ordered.
If you find old rounds, pull bullets-even low power smokeless loads can loosen up these guns-different pressure profile.

test firing mech with primed brass first…

 

[kBob]

I turned down a box of .32S&W last year because I was afraid it would tempt me to shoot a tiny five shot .32 top break and a larger Six shot. Call me a coward. Shop owner Gave me a near full box of .32 S&W Long to offset gas cost of bringing something back the gunsmith had missed.

-kBob

 

[sobrbiker883]

Mgderf-
It looks as if yours is missing the “Glock” style trigger safety (see pic of mine). I’d definitely try the firing mechanism with primed but not loaded cases to make sure the transfer bar is intact (yeah, these two features were WAY ahead of their time, making these all the cooler).
Look up Bob Godforth’s book on Ivers, for more info than almost anyone can digest.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Yes, OP, it's .32 S&W (short).

It is a black powder gun, but if in good repair, the sedate factory .32 S&W loads should be fine.

Do NOT use .32 ACP. Yes, they'll chamber and fire. NO, it's not safe, much higher pressure.

Probably .32 S&W. Owl facing forward means it's a black powder revolver, but you probably knew that.

Grips can be changed, but a positive ID of black powder or smokeless is the cylinder notches; BP revolvers don't have a detent feature to prevent CCW rotation with hammer down.

 

[the Black Spot]

Nice! I have a 2nd model nickel finish

 

[Monac]

deleted because redundant with sobrbiker883.

 

[the Black Spot]

You can cut down 32 long brass