iver johnson topbreak 38

[vicazotea]

I'm trying to find a production date for and old Iver Johnson topbreak 38. It is chambered in 38S&W and still shoots nicely. The serial number is #4198, and it is the same in all three locations. There are no letters with the serial number. The right side of the butt does have a " 1 " stamped on it, but I don't think it's a model 1. It does have the double tang latch, and the coil spring for the hammer. It has a blued 5" barrel. There is no patent number or patent pending stamp on the gun. The butt-plate is not exposed, as it has a wooden stock, that appears to be factory fitted (perfect). There are no other markings on the gun. I picked it up used and dirty 45 years ago. It came with a leather chest holster, of the old aviator type. With the wooden one piece grip and holster, I suspect it may be an aviators weapon from the Korean conflict or earlier. However without a date, it's all just speculation. I have no plans to sell it, but would like to know it better. If anyone has a clue, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Vic

 

[Ron James]

The double latch, 4 frame pins and coil spring indicates a Iver Johnson made after 1909. Those wood ( Western ) grips are a special order item, as such the guns were not serial numbered in the normal sequence. I believe it is a Third Model, safety hammer made around 1921. The US never used the Iver Johnsons as issue firearms. You said the serial number was the same in all three places, where were they located and what are the patent numbers. ADDES: I just reread your post and see you stated there were no patent numbers, that is rather odd, the only reason there would be no patent number would be that the gun was refinished and the information removed.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, I'd have to guess that gun has been polished & re blued.

Awful shiny bluing for a factory finish IJ.

rc

 

[vicazotea]

Thanks for the replies. The shiny parts are where the bluing has worn off. I found it quite odd that there are no patent or patent pending dates. Removing the wooden grip, the left side has the serial number stamped in it, and the right side has a number 1 stamped in it. The bottom is devoid of any markings or scratches, and has a perfectly aligned tapped hole for the wooden grip. My only thought is that this could have been a special order. Originally, I suspected military. Perhaps law enforcement? Reminds me of old photos of Canadian Mounted Police sidearms. I at least have something to wonder about.
by the way, the serial numbers are located, left side frame (under grip), trigger guard, and removing 5 shot cylinder serial number under top frame.
Thanks again.

 

[Ron James]

The wood " Western " grips was a special order option ( cost in 1922. $1.25 ). You have a nice old Iver Johnson, I doubt if it has any special background, if military or police it would have specific markings.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Those IJ's are very well made. For a time officers could bring their own arms to war. The pistol or revolver had to use standard ammunition (that meant .45 ACP or 38 Special in some cases). Even so a LOT of GI's in WW2 packed personal sidearms of many types. Officers got away with it more than grunts.

Chance are some one just 'found a holster that fit' the old wheelgun and there's no military providence at all.

It's a neat old gun, enjoy it. As far as I can tell that model (with coil springs) was halted in 1941, but cataloged through 1948.

It's possible its a gun factory assembled from leftover parts post 1941, and could explain the missing patent dates.