Choctaw
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As long as the method is legal and ethical, go for it.
Javelin champion uses spear to take big Alerbertan black bear; the media is freaked.
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Ranger Roberts
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If you are competent with your weapon of choice, I don't have a problem with it. Me personally, I'll stick to bow and rifle. I have an atlatl that I mess around with for fun and I've learned the safest thing on the field is whatever I'm aiming at!
X-Rap
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Art Eatman
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They don't contradict often enough to worry about, though.
entropy
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Unlike the boys in Bion's statement, I suspect the hunter will eat the bear meat, and utilize the fur.
Have YOU faced a bear in the wild (Black, Brown or Grizzly, really doesn't matter; if it wants to hurt you, it can) without a firearm? I have, several times. Don't you dare say that bear didn't have a chance. Hell, I've had a case of adrenaline dump when I did have a gun, knowing that bear was circling me at dusk....
I wouldn't hesitate a second to kill any animal that was attacking me, nor any animal I wanted to eat. But, I don't like killing anything just for sport or for what often, to me, seems like just for the fun of it.
I once had to defend myself from a German Shepard. However, I didn't want to eat it. So one round right between its fore legs resulted in the most acrobatic stunt I have ever seen by an animal. The dog was running toward me, in full attack mode, but did a complete summersault without missing a stride and ran full speed in the opposite direction. The dog was within 5 feet from me when I fired my pistol, and I was within about one more pound of trigger pull from putting the next round in its mouth. I'm happy I didn't need to kill the dog. If I hadn't been armed at the time, I have no doubt, the dog would have really torn me up.
I once had to defend myself from a German Shepard. However, I didn't want to eat it. So one round right between its fore legs resulted in the most acrobatic stunt I have ever seen by an animal. The dog was running toward me, in full attack mode, but did a complete summersault without missing a stride and ran full speed in the opposite direction. The dog was within 5 feet from me when I fired my pistol, and I was within about one more pound of trigger pull from putting the next round in its mouth. I'm happy I didn't need to kill the dog. If I hadn't been armed at the time, I have no doubt, the dog would have really torn me up.
CraigC
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You don't know anything about hunting, do you? Your statement is an insult not only to hunters but to the animals in question. No one who has ever hunted would make that statement. Why? Because we know for a fact that NO critter is defenseless and "has no chance". A bear's nose is more sensitive than a dog's. Which means he can smell both prey and danger from miles. Bears see in color and have excellent vision. A bear's hearing ability is over twice that of humans. They can hear in all directions and their ears reach mature size before any other part of their body. Bears have large brains and are very intelligent, can navigate better than humans and have excellent long term memory. The critter you just insulted, purely out of ignorance, is the product of millions of years of evolution and they are FAR more equipped to survive in their environment than we are to hunt them. So perhaps you can try to imagine how difficult it is for a human to successfully hunt bears in the wild. Whether they are baited or not. Same goes for any other critter. The only critter I know of that is as easy to hunt as you seem to think, is the armadillo. Because when their head is down while they're foraging, they're completely oblivious to the world around them.
Then why are you in the hunting forum? You obviously have no interest and no understanding, only contempt.
Choctaw
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That is a decision a hunter must make for himself and not impose his will upon others.
X-Rap
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Part or that decision is made by the various state governments. I might think baiting or party hunting is or is not perfectly ethical but depending on where I practice those activities I might fall victim to some heavy sanctions.
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Choctaw
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Ethical AND legal. Not and/or. If a hunter is breaking game laws he is no longer practicing ethical hunting methods.
Would I try hunting with a spear? No way, I throw like a girl.
Would I try hunting with a spear? No way, I throw like a girl.
"Your statement is an insult not only to hunters but to the animals in question."
I don't hunt and I don't claim to know a lot about hunting, especially bear hunting, but if I were to do so I'd do it for the meat and the hide. It wouldn't be to see if I could kill it with a javelin. Because I respect the animal, I'd want to be sure I could take it cleanly and and would use a rifle. With all the high-five hand slapping going on, I think the guy wasn't really sure he could kill it outright instead of possibly just wounding it. I'm sure it takes skill to effectively hunt with a javelin, and this guy pulled it off. But hopefully, others who aren't as capable won't be encouraged to try to replicate this guy's method. I say that out of respect for the animal.
I don't hunt and I don't claim to know a lot about hunting, especially bear hunting, but if I were to do so I'd do it for the meat and the hide. It wouldn't be to see if I could kill it with a javelin. Because I respect the animal, I'd want to be sure I could take it cleanly and and would use a rifle. With all the high-five hand slapping going on, I think the guy wasn't really sure he could kill it outright instead of possibly just wounding it. I'm sure it takes skill to effectively hunt with a javelin, and this guy pulled it off. But hopefully, others who aren't as capable won't be encouraged to try to replicate this guy's method. I say that out of respect for the animal.
You are not alone. Ethics deal with morals...not necessarily "legality".
For example, most people would not view owning slaves as being "moral" or "ethical", yet it was legal in this country for a long time. It's an extreme example but one that quickly gets to the point.
While many people hunting in a particular state may have different ethics, they are all bound by the same set of game laws by virtue of living in the same state.
Compounding the problems further is that each state has their own set of game laws. So now you have millions of people, with varying sets of ethics/morals operating under a wide array of game laws and trying to have conversations about what is right. The ethics/morals can be argued all day. Heck, they've been argued in western civilization since around 470 BC when Socrates was doing it.
In the end, with regard to hunting, I lean on the game laws. If State "A" says it's legal to hunt with a spear, then I have no problem with a hunter doing so.
I may take issue with his level of skill or usage of the weapon, but if it's legal he certainly has a right to use it.
Whether i think a particular law is "ethical" is a different story altogether. That's an area where we'll never see 100% of the people agree 100% of the time...and that's probably a healthy thing.
FL-NC
Member
Different strokes for different states. In the Southeast its fairly common (and legal) to hunt deer, hogs, and bear with dogs. People in the midwest have a different set of laws and different attitudes on the matter. Some say using 223 for a deer is a bad thing. Some places its illegal, other places its not. Its legal in NC and I dropped a deer DRT last year with 223. Was that bad? If so is it bad based on "what if?" Isn't it worse to use a gun like a 308 or an arrow to wound and not recover a deer? Is it less sporting to take an animal at 25 yards, or 800 yards?- I have the equipment and skill to do either. Follow the law, know your limits, and if you don't agree with a method or tactic, you are free to forgo said methods and tactics.
Snyper
Member
If you don't hunt, you really shouldn't be criticizing how others hunt.
He killed it humanely, so I'm not sure why you want to complain.
I hunt and I don't think this guy was hunting, not really.
He lured a black bear into very, very close proximity with a bait station. The bear is distracted by chowing down on the bait and the guy throws his homemade spear. It hits the bear and the bear runs away.
I have three problems with this.
1. The bait station. Not much hunting with a bait station. He was just lying in wait.
But that's okay, I guess. I've sat in tree stands before. But I've never used musk or urine or bait traps. I set up a stand near a game trail and wait and hope.
2. Anyway, he hits the bear. The bear runs. Our brave "hunter" runs too, THE OTHER WAY! He says it was getting too dark to track the bear to see what happened to it. It could have been dangerous to follow it, he said
Hell, it wasn't too dark to throw the spear. He could have and should have tracked it. How long did it take the animal to bleed out, I wonder?
Some people here say the bear" ran 60 yards" and died, therefore it MUST have died quickly.
BS! No one knows how long it took to die. It may have run those last 60 yards, collapsed and bled for hours floppiing around with a spear sticking out of it before it died. No one knows BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T TRACK IT as they most certainly shòuld have.
The spear chucker was there, his wife who shot the video was there as well as the two owners of the hunting camp where the hunter and his wife were staying. Those owners specialize in bear hunts.
No one had a good hunting light? No one had a rifle to finish off the bear should that have proven necessary?
They went back the NEXT DAY, 20 hours later, to look for the bear. I hope they had a pleasant evening.
The wounded bear SHOULD HAVE BEEN TRACKED and finished off if it were still alive! That's my biggest problem with this so-called hunt.
3. The hunter is screaming and laughing hysterically, fist bumping and bragging in the video. But, tell me please, what the hell is he celebrating? His prey, the bear, was healthy enough to run away into the forest and disappear. Yeah sure, nice kill.
There's something a little off with this couple, the Bowmars.
There's a video on YouTube where the wife shoots a turkey in the neck with a bow.
She's in a turkey blind, uses a mechanical turkey complete with recorded female turkey mating calls to lure her prey in until it's just a few feet away.
Their video shows the turkey's head fly off (in regular time AND, for a nice added touch, slow motion). The video also shows the wife laughing her butt off for a long time after the hit.
Yep, great shot, clean, humane kill. But the kill didn't deserve all that outright, prolonged laughter. It's kinda creepy to watch.
Oh yeah, the husband shot the video. He too is convulsed with laughter.
These people give hunting and hunters an undeserved bad name.
When this hunter dies and goes to his personal hell, I bet it's full of angry black bears with spears sticking out of their sides and PO'd turkeys with razor blade beaks.
He lured a black bear into very, very close proximity with a bait station. The bear is distracted by chowing down on the bait and the guy throws his homemade spear. It hits the bear and the bear runs away.
I have three problems with this.
1. The bait station. Not much hunting with a bait station. He was just lying in wait.
But that's okay, I guess. I've sat in tree stands before. But I've never used musk or urine or bait traps. I set up a stand near a game trail and wait and hope.
2. Anyway, he hits the bear. The bear runs. Our brave "hunter" runs too, THE OTHER WAY! He says it was getting too dark to track the bear to see what happened to it. It could have been dangerous to follow it, he said
Hell, it wasn't too dark to throw the spear. He could have and should have tracked it. How long did it take the animal to bleed out, I wonder?
Some people here say the bear" ran 60 yards" and died, therefore it MUST have died quickly.
BS! No one knows how long it took to die. It may have run those last 60 yards, collapsed and bled for hours floppiing around with a spear sticking out of it before it died. No one knows BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T TRACK IT as they most certainly shòuld have.
The spear chucker was there, his wife who shot the video was there as well as the two owners of the hunting camp where the hunter and his wife were staying. Those owners specialize in bear hunts.
No one had a good hunting light? No one had a rifle to finish off the bear should that have proven necessary?
They went back the NEXT DAY, 20 hours later, to look for the bear. I hope they had a pleasant evening.
The wounded bear SHOULD HAVE BEEN TRACKED and finished off if it were still alive! That's my biggest problem with this so-called hunt.
3. The hunter is screaming and laughing hysterically, fist bumping and bragging in the video. But, tell me please, what the hell is he celebrating? His prey, the bear, was healthy enough to run away into the forest and disappear. Yeah sure, nice kill.
There's something a little off with this couple, the Bowmars.
There's a video on YouTube where the wife shoots a turkey in the neck with a bow.
She's in a turkey blind, uses a mechanical turkey complete with recorded female turkey mating calls to lure her prey in until it's just a few feet away.
Their video shows the turkey's head fly off (in regular time AND, for a nice added touch, slow motion). The video also shows the wife laughing her butt off for a long time after the hit.
Yep, great shot, clean, humane kill. But the kill didn't deserve all that outright, prolonged laughter. It's kinda creepy to watch.
Oh yeah, the husband shot the video. He too is convulsed with laughter.
These people give hunting and hunters an undeserved bad name.
When this hunter dies and goes to his personal hell, I bet it's full of angry black bears with spears sticking out of their sides and PO'd turkeys with razor blade beaks.
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You don't know anything about black bears and their vision, do you?
"Black Bear Senses
Vision:*Black bears are believed to see in color and have great up close eyesight. Recent research is showing that their long distance eyesight is not very good,*they are likely not able to see details of a large objects from further than 30 yards away."
That quote was from here:
http://m.myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/managed/bear/facts/behavior/
That site belongs to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Don't tell me they're a bunch of PETA vegetarians either. They okayed a black bear hunt in Florida last year where 298 bears were taken.
So, in fact, bears are nearsighted and only see well out to about 30 yards.
And yes, they have an excellent sense of smell.
So our spearman/warrior was standing 40 yards from the bait station, just beyond the range where a black bear can see large objects like a human holding a harpoon size spear.
And this brave soul made sure the animal's snout was full of the odor of bear bait.
Yep, he's a gutsy guy taking on a bear with a spear, wounding it and then tracking the bear 20 HOURS LATER to see what happened.
Yes sir! This guy's a real hero, a mighty, mighty hunter is he.
In reality, this clown is an embarassment to hunters everywhere.
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X-Rap
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I really have no quarrel with the method of take but I have read and seen to many accounts of hunters leaving their wounded quarry over night.
Those who will speak honestly will agree that a large percentage of those animals aren't fit to eat by the time they're recovered.
I place a great deal of the blame in this case on the outfitter.
They should have made every effort to track the animal that night.
There may be laws that disallow anyone but the hunter to make any subsequent shots on wounded game and there also may be weapon restrictions that would at least make waiting the customary 3-6 hours before going after a wounded animal when the hit is questionable.
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Those who will speak honestly will agree that a large percentage of those animals aren't fit to eat by the time they're recovered.
I place a great deal of the blame in this case on the outfitter.
They should have made every effort to track the animal that night.
There may be laws that disallow anyone but the hunter to make any subsequent shots on wounded game and there also may be weapon restrictions that would at least make waiting the customary 3-6 hours before going after a wounded animal when the hit is questionable.
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entropy
Member
You apparently don't hunt bear; It's done one of two ways throughout most of the US; Bait or dogs. AFAIK, either dogs are not used in Canada, or I've just never heard of it. I have several friends who've taken bear in Canada, all over bait.There's the odd hunter who'll sit by a dump or a blackberry patch, but
basically that's baiting anyway.
Perhaps it was getting too dark legally for him to track the bear. There are game laws in Canada, too, ya know.
Not necessarily a fact. Maybe they've only had myopic bears to study.....The next time the OD at work has a bear in the exam chair, I'll note the results here in a way that does not violate his rights under HIPAA.
I will agree with you about their behavior immediately following a kill, odd to be sure; but if you are complaining about their harvest methods, perhaps you might stick to the way most people harvest meat; in the Safeway.
The size of the meal?The response is rather comical. Use a modern sporting rifle with a scope and you're an evil sniper who picks on defenseless animals with modern technology. They say, throw down your rifle and fight without weapons. The size of your manhood is brought into question. Use a spear and you're a barbaric neanderthal using archaic weapons that aren't humane. The size of your manhood is again brought into question. The underlying question is, why are the bunny huggers so obsessed with our manhood?
That's my main beef too. I can see waiting a reasonable amount of time, whatever that is, but 20 hours is WAY beyond reasonable.
If they didn't have a good powerful light and/or big enough caliber rifle to take or finish a bear, (which they should have had with them in the first place) they should have gone back to that camp, gotten what they needed, gone back and done the right thing.
And I'll guarantee, it wouldn't have taken anywhere near 20 hours.
Cowards, the whole lot of them.
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