Jews, Cocentration Camps, Band of Brothers, Taiwan

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twoblink

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Jews, Concentration Camps, Band of Brothers, Taiwan

WOW..

Where do I begin...

So finished up Band of Brothers (Waiting for BoB Pacific!!)

Girlfriend was thoroughly engrossed in it.. Episode 9 however...

Here in Taiwan, the textbooks said to the effect "Germans took prisoners and held them in 'large open jails'"

So my gf was horrified with the pics of the Concentration Camps! She didn't get the "rude awakening" in high school, she got it on DVD last night..:rolleyes:

I have no idea why countries do this (Japan does this also) when they "oops, forget" to show some of the tragedies of history, and/or gloss over it like a flesh wound.. It was like saying Hiroshima got a little bit burned.. :rolleyes:

So here's the question I have:

How can most of Hollywood, who take part in the production of something like Band of Brothers, who if they are Jews, still are standing there yelling "No guns no guns??"

I totally saw "Molon Labe" from the Jewish perspective in Episode 9.. Of course, it was entitled "Why we Fight"...

Someone explain to me, how you can watch something like this; be a Jew, and still say no guns? How do they cope with the cognative dissonance?
 
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I've got a crystal clear theory, but I just can't. My wife begged me to never repeat it. OK, maybe I will after history repeats itself, but then again, I'll probably be one of the first to go.
 
Well who ever said any of these left wing pinko's were rationale to begin with.
 
I think those anti's put the events of the past at arm's length, too distant. As if it could never happen again. It is short sighted and irrational. Perhaps those same people would have advocated staying in the ghettos, had they lived there at the time. We know that many people did remain while actively threatened. I recently read "The Bielski Brothers" and was amazed at the tales of how Nazis would march into town, execute many people, and the townsfolk would remain for further abuse at a later date.

For me, "never again" is an active phrase, something to resist rather than a statement of fact like some law of physics.
 
Just wait until the Homeland InSecurity Dept raises the threat level to red in which they can institue Martial Law which relieves you of your Constitutional/Inherent/Human rights and see how many concentration camps go up all over America and are filled with those patriots who would rather fight for their freedoms and their liberties then live in a virtual cell where we have the rights of slaves but are somehow "more safe."

Ben Franklin knew what he was talking about you know.

J
 
Give me a break. We can't even get the mayor of sanfran to stop issueing marriage licenses . How do you think were going to get the governors to enforce martial law.
 
It's not just Asia.

All countries with either a directly totalitarian/paternalistic streak to their government, or a relatively recent (within 75 years or so) history of same do NOT like to talk about how a government in a "first world country" went utterly homicidally bonkers. Might get people thinking that unlimited government power ain't such a good idea after all. You think Asia is bad, try the Middle East :barf:.

Exception: Russia and to some degree the USSR, but only because Germany came within a hair's breath of successfully taking over, with massive loss of life at Stalingrad, etc. And they don't talk much about how psycho Japan got. Or Stalin for that matter :scrutiny:.

(Japan is WAY up the Egyptian river on this too.)
 
How
How can most of Hollywood, who take part in the production of something like Band of Brothers, who if they are Jews, still are standing there yelling "No guns no guns??"
Click to expand...

There have been a number of threads in the last six months about Jews and our disproportionate anti-gun representation.

The cultural reasons are many, varied and debatable, but it results in one thing:

Like the Jews thought in Germany, they think, "It could never happen here!"

You know what they say about those who fail to learn the lessons of history... :(



P.S. I've been a Jew all my life. I just converted to Gunnyism recently. I'm doing my part! :)
 
"It could never happen to me!" is a phrase I use when I win something on ebay.. not about my freedom..

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it..

I don't know about the rest of the Jews who are yelling no gun no guns..

But, bread, water once every 7 days, and sleeping next to dying people with leoparsy would sure make me yell "Never Again!" quite often!!

Question::

Tom Hanks on the DVD is referred to as a "WWII Buff".

What's his stance on guns, anybody know?

And what's the "official" stance of Speilburg on guns?
 
twoblink, go to www.jpfo.org and read all the articles (which I suspect you may have already done) then order a copy of Innocents Betrayed.

Most of your answers are there.


Also remember that there is a difference between American Jews and Israeli Jews ... its the Israeli ones that are upholding the "Never Again" pledge.
 
TwoBlink,

I'm a Jew, and I'll take a short stab at it.

Victimhood Syndrome. There is a collective sense in Judaism that the Jews have suffered throughout history "For A Reason". Christians often look at it as punishment for the death of Jesus, but I don't think that has much to do with it-although it doesn't help.

If you look at history since the Old Testament, the Jews have been "tested" on a regular basis by the events of history. Old Egypt, the Greeks, the Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Empire-at each juncture, we are tested. And somehow, we come together as a people and survive. I say it is G-d who tests us, who wants us to be vigilant. That's our job-eternal vigilance.

The Holocaust was a shock, not because of the behaviors of the Nazis, but because of the scope. For a brief time, the Jews woke up, and with the non-Jewish world's sense of guilt making it easier to act (see the Balfour Declaration), The State Of Israel was born. And even though most Jews would never say it, it took an obscenity like the Holocaust to allow a Jewish state to be born. If something Good comes of something Evil, does it legitimize the Evil deed?

The strange thing about the Jewish Victimhood Syndrome is that it is collective only, not individualized. To put it another way, The Jewish People have been victimized, but rarely do I meet an individual Jew who feels like a victim. It isn't personal. In America, as a group and as individuals, we have been most successful. Judaism places a strong emphasis on education, charity, and moral and ethical behavior. Contrast that to the "typical" African-American response, where many seem to carry the mantle of victimhood upon themselves.

So, given history, why aren't more American Jews more concerned with RKBA? First, many Jews are uncomfortable with the idea of being "enforcers" or "warriors". Our Warrior heroes weren't conquerors and slayers, but peaceful men who took up arms when no other alternative was possible-think David or Judah Maccabee-and who stopped fighting as soon as possible. As for enforcers, the idea of "Cossack", the rampaging vigilante, comes to mind. Jews don't want to associate themselves with someone so low. Also, Jews aren't known as hunters, since meat has to be slain in a certain, ritualistic way to be Kosher; that's one less reason to own a firearm. Finally, there is "Tikkun Olam" -To Heal the World, the idea that our reason for existence is to be The Shining Example to all nations, to raise the world out of savagery, and to end suffering. Gun ownership doesn't fit that belief, as too many see it. It also explains why so many Jews vote Democrat-Democrats support tax-paid programs to help people. The idea of paying higher taxes in order to help the less fortunate does not bother most Jews. The arguing is over which programs.

Now, do I believe this? To some degree, yes. I believe in Tikkun Olam. I do not oppose all taxes. I even believe that Victimhood has strengthened us and prepared us in the past. But I also believe that it is no longer in our best interest to be Victims ever again, because next time, it might be every last Jew, and all of humankind as well. Ask the Israelis about this if you have any doubts. Tested? Yes. Victimized? Never again !

Never again. Molan Labe. From my cold, dead hands.

-----

Yes, that was the short answer. ;)




Anklepocket, please PM me your theory. I'd love to hear it.
 
Anti-bubba.......I can't thank you enough for such a cogent and interesting explanation of the Jewish response to gun control. There is a humble admiration I possess for the Jewish people after considering your thoughtful historical account of their suffering . I have a much better understanding of the Jewish view of their place in the universe. I had a general sense of this view when a friend once explained to me that Jews typically don't see God as the source of punishment or suffering...but rather God suffers too when evil prevails. An approch to life that I had never quite thought about.....and now I strive to allow this understanding to inform my life.

In relationship to gun control...if God isn't the source of evil...but man is responsible......then man is accountable for seeing that justice and goodness prevail. In a word...man must contest evil with action...and sometimes with a gun !
 
Meek, I found the answer to be 'belief through suffering.' You'll notice the Old Testament has a whole lot of testing of faith. There is never a good corporeal reason to suffer (IMO) so we have to look on it as having spiritual meaning.

There is an old joke. We Jews were chosen. Chosen for what, we don't know!

The curious thing is how strongly polarized the Jewish population seems to be. My family and Jewish friends are either strongly against or militantly pro RKBA. Seems like not much middle ground.
 
Heh. Us Celts have had it worse than the Jews, by and large.

We held Scotland, Ireland, Wales and a few hilltops in north Spain/south France. We only self-govern in Ireland now though, and not all of that. Lost all the rest o' Europe.

Oh well. Before my time. Not worth sweatin'.

Edited to add: we had our share of persecution too. England banned the wearing of Highland dress circa...1740ish I think. I could look it up. Ever heard the phrase "beaten like a red-headed stepchild"? Celt reference. We're mostly redheads. We also rebelled against Catholicism early, google:

French Huguenot religious minority

That branch of us got chased out of France and central Europe, evaced to Holland for a while then came to the US.
 
Yom Hashoah

Today was the Yom Hashoah, the Day of Remembrance of The Holocaust. I just got back from the service. And I have to add to what I said before.

Meekandmild, when I say the Jews have suffered throughout history for a reason, I don't mean it like it is karma, that we suffer because it is our fate, or because we must pay off for past sins. As Penforhire says, "We were chosen. For what, nobody knows." Some-usually non-Jews-think it is about a sense of superiority, as in "Father (who art in Heaven) always liked you better!" :p But that isn't it. If we were the favorite, G-d would not have been so hard on us. It's kind of like being the first born--more is expected of us, and we are responsible for looking after our younger Brothers and Sisters. We were the first Monotheists, the first to live by law and history instead of the caprice of godlings and spirits. All things being equal, we're expected to do better.

I tend to think of it a little differently. We are G-d's Marine Corps. We are the first into the breach. We lead the way. We suffer the worst casualties. And we brag, a little, about it. "We've suffered more than anyone, because no one can do what we do". Anyone who has the will and desire and the determination can be a Jew (or a Marine), but they'll never be the same person they were before. There's a Marine saying I like: "Pain is weakness leaving the body". And like the Marines, Jews know that no matter what sacrifices were asked of us before, all too soon another one will come along.

And maybe that has something to do with our fatalism-and our optimism. Yes, we will suffer again, and we will get through it again. Somehow, we emerge on the other side, and those who oppressed us are vanquished.

Jews believe the Messiah will eventually come, when our need is greatest, and things most dire. But I think we've got it backwards. Our suffering is weakness leaving our collective body, and each new attack on our existence, each test, is designed to strengthen us. I think the Messiah will come when we are strong enough to meet him. G-d led us out of Egypt, and it took 40 years for the old people, with slave mentalities, to die and be succeeded by a strong new generation. We are still wandering, still slaves to some old way of thinking that prevents us from entering the Promised Land. When we can look the Messiah in the eye, and march beside Him to accomplish great things, then He will come.

Obviously, we're a ways off.

So for me, suffering isn't such a bad thing. It is the means to The End. It is one more pushup. It is no coincidence that Jesus was Jewish. And it's no surprise to Jews that, when he was given the chance to escape his fate, to not suffer, he went willingly to it. He had a job to do, one no one else could do. And you see the results, with one single suffering Jew? ;)

Judaism isn't history to me. It's my life.

I was a slave in Egypt.
I fought the Greeks and regained the Temple.
I resisted the Roman Empire at Masada.
I wander to every corner of the globe, looking for a home of my own.
I died at the hand of Tourquemada.
I fled the Cossacks and the pogroms.
I stood at Aushwitz, and shoveled the ashes of my family from the ovens, to make room for the next group.

And I survived. As my oppressors haved faded into history and myth. I am still here.

And I'm ready for whatever is next.



Never Forget. Or Semper Fi-whichever works for you.
 
A lot of Jews, or what I like to refer to as Coca Cola Jews (Grew up in America, about 18-24 years old, has never seen a hard day in their life)

One of them told me before "If none of us had guns, then there's nothing for them to take away from us.. " :scrutiny: :banghead: That logic is just so wrong it's rediculous... It's like saying "If we don't have freedom, then there isn't any for them to take away from us.."

The "Victicrat" mentality as Larry Elder calls it, is just horrid.

My gf ain't Jewish and she believes that sort of situation is entirely possible.

But I know that doesn't apply to all Jews though; I have a friend who's adopted, and he says his dad has a poster of an SS shouting "Get in the Shower!!" over his bed. He wanted to make sure he "didn't get soft".. and forget.

If there were more Jews like him.. America wouldn't be where it is today..
 
I have a friend who's adopted, and he says his dad has a poster of an SS shouting "Get in the Shower!!" over his bed. He wanted to make sure he "didn't get soft".. and forget.
Click to expand...

Man, that's pretty hardcore... but you do what you gotta do to stay focussed.

I'm not Jewish, but I have a tremendous amount of respect for the fighters in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Today, April 19th, I'm reading Mila 18 out of respect for them. Fascinating book in how it examines the victim mentality discussed earlier in this thread. Inspiring in how it demonstrates the strength of a fired-up minority who finally pick up arms.

Nazis and Jews, Hutus and Tutsis, ya never know when the violence will start. Be Prepared!
 
Good post A-bubba

My wife is Jewish, and the past few years have really opened my eyes to the Ashkenazi-Ameican Jewish world. I think your explanation sums up my impressions to a T.

side note: After meeeting me and getting the gun-nut view of how the world works, wife asked her mom for her thoughts on "home safety." My MIL, a Mainliner (you Philly guys know what I mean), replied - "What do I need to worry about, I've got a sawed off shotgun?!" :what:

My wife had no idea her PhD'd mom was loaded! (Yes, it is NFA compliant - a 26" side-by-side that was "sawed off" to 19" back in the early 70's when she lived in Wisconsin)
 
Someone explain to me, how you can watch something like this; be a Jew, and still say no guns? How do they cope with the cognative dissonance?
Click to expand...

For those interested, there's another thread on an almost identical subject at
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76536

I'm Jewish, and I could never understand how so many of my co-religionists are so liberal and anti-gun. After many years of observation, thinking about this and discussing it with like-minded Jews, I've come to the conclusion that most liberal, anti-gun Jews are secular humanists who are partly or wholly ignorant of history. Either they are not religious at all, or they're very weakly religious. Of course, this is a generalization and not always true. However, these people (and also non-Jewish liberals and anti-gun types - its the mindset that's important, not the religion) tend to be quite self-absorbed, giving little (or no) importance to either the past or traditions (and, thus, knowing less about history because it simply doesn't interest them). This results in a tremendous inability to put things into perspective - they focus on the here and now, the latest study, etc. They miss out on the timeless wisdom of past ages, wisdom earned at high cost by our literal or figurative ancestors, and on the lessons of history.

With regard to Jews as such, my opinion is that there is a remnant of the old religious teachings that is passed down through the generations, even if it isn't recognized as such. Such basic teachings as giving charity to the poor and/or helpless, not doing harm to others, etc. have been handed down, but they are twisted by a lack of knowledge about the underlying religious law into a liberal, wishy-washy morality that fits in well with Socialism and its associated ideologies. A perfect example of this is the 6th Commandment. Those uneducated in Jewish law (including most secular Jews) think that it says, "Thou shalt not kill." In fact, it says, "Thou shalt not murder." Any simpleton can understand the difference between a justifiable killing and murder, and the laws of every jurisdiction in the US (and most, if not all, countries) treat such acts very differently. Further, many Jews don't understand (or even know/believe) that the most precious gift that you have from G-d is your very life - and that you are not only permitted to defend it, but you're obligated to do so. This is the type of ignorance that we are dealing with - and people suffering from this type of ignorance who are of a basically good moral character tend to fall into the blissninnie school of moral reasoning and belief - which naturally makes them anti-gun, because they think that guns are only made for killing which (in their belief) is always BAD.

Anyhow, I don't subscribe to this viewpoint. While I am far from being very religious, I know enough about my heritage to know that Jewish law stands in opposition to Evil, and I know enough about history to be certain that Evil wins if it is not opposed by human beings. Sometimes that opposition requires actual physical resistance, and sometimes that resistance is most effective if it is backed up by various weapons including guns. I've seen too many films, read too many books and heard from too many people about the effects of gun control on all peoples (including Jews) to ever permit myself to be disarmed. I've yet to see a film or read a book in which the people being unloaded from cattle cars at Auschwitz were carrying guns, or in which the ashes of those cremated at the death factories contained guns or knives. The simple lesson of this: only disarmed people can be led to the slaughter like sheep (for more recent examples, see Rwanda or Cambodia). My wife's uncle survived 4 of Herr Hitler's concentration camps (unlike his entire family) including Birkenau (the work camp attached to Auschwitz), and he has LOTS of guns. Given that his knowledge was gained at such horrific cost, I'd be a fool to do otherwise.

I think that many folks would be surprised at how many Jews think like I do. Anyone interested in finding out the facts should speak to Jews who live away from the larger coastal cities and Chicago - down South, at least, many Jews are armed (even my rabbi). I have a few Jewish friends that could supply enough arms and ammo to overthrow a Latin American country or two, and they know many others like themselves.

I would also like to raise the subject of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (the secular anniversary of which is today, 4/19). This proud moment amidst the horror of the Shoah should serve as a beacon to all thinking Jews, as well as anyone from any ethnic/racial/religious group who abhors tyranny. Unfortunately, many Jews are either ignorant of it or they have pushed this "inconvenient" fact to the back of their closed minds.

I also believe that "Never Again!" is a rather meaningless statement without the means to back it up. For a nation like Israel, this means having a very effective armed forces and nuclear weapons that can be delivered to any point of value to its enemies, actual or potential. For individual Jews or members of other oppressed groups, it means having an effective means of self-defense and the ability to proficiently use that means and, most important of all, the WILL to use that means if necessary. Being armed to the teeth means little if you're afraid to use those arms when they are most in need of being used.
 
you also have to realize that the jews living in europe werent just merely laborers. there was a large segement of educated jews who were doctors, lawyers, etc.

the class distinctions kept the 'privileged' jews from ever believing they would be exterminated.

i thought i had my thoughts focused on this topic, but turns out i dont. sorry for the half-a-thought here.
 
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