edrice
Member
Actually you can compare anything, even apples and oranges. Oranges are orange and apples are, well... red, green, yellow... and they are basically the same size. I just successfully compared them.The Lone Haranguer said:
But flesh, blood and bones of animals and humans are relatively very similar, maybe with some size differences but even those that are roughly the same size as humans may be tougher and harder to bring down down than humans. So what you're referring to here is a thicker animal that needs more penetration to cover the cross-sectional thickness and I'm in full agreement. I'm also aware that most modern HPs penetate somewhere around an average of 12 inches but I know plenty of humans that have greater thickness that would benefit from greater penetration than can be afforded by a too-quickly expanding HP. If a the bullet-path cross-section of a BG is 18 inches and the bullet only penetrates 12 inches, then we're absent 6 inches of potential wound channel. In the event that no vital organs are struck, I'd rather have the projectile traverse that entire distance to create one-third more grief for the BG even if it may not be quite as wide. That just looks to me like more debilitating damage, just like for the larger game animal. So, hence, still begs my very valid question, "Well, if it's so effective on a large wild game animal, which are harder to kill than humans, what makes it so less effective on a BG?"
The key to your statement is "to reach their vital organs" and if HP or ball does that, the business is done. Given that, then the length and width arguments of the wound channel are mostly moot. Not given that, then there are still bone, muscle and blood vessels to eat up and if your HP has stopped somewhere short then those components are left intact, much to our disquiet. In that highly probable instance (because vital organs make small targets), I'll gladly take the longer wound channel over the short one any day.
If the vital organs are hit and the entire cross section is traversed tearing up more structure, so much the better.
The disccusion about over-penetration and bystanders is basically a non-issue since shephard19's OP was about JHP vs ball effectiveness had nothing to do with an actual scenario. Sure, it's a good point in one sense in that you certainly don't want to hurt any innocents, but there's also the potential for hitting another BG behind the first BG if it does over-penetrate and wouldn't that be a desireable thing? Not that likely, I know, but this coupled with the fact that, and don't hold me to a ratio because I'm not sure what the actual stats are, but many rounds miss the BG entirely and go down range for every one that actually connects. That alone greatly mitigates the argument against over-penetration and brings up the question as to whether one should even fire at all given that either the distance is too great for accurate marksmanship, especially under duress. Also the fact that if the HP fills up with clothing or bone and expands very little or not at all, you're still stuck with your over-penetration issue, so the point becomes even more mooty. There is no magic bullet. I'd never think for a minute that because you're using HPs that bystanders are safe. There's much more to this.
I think some of the previous replies have interpreted questioning HP performance vs ball as being adverse to using them, and I think some might need to read a little closer. I've already stated that I load JHPs for home defense for whatever slight advantage I might gain. I'm just under no illusion that an HP is a death ray and that with the ball ammo one might as well throw down the gun and hotfoot it screaming like a banshee. Many people have been dropped with one shot from ball ammo because they were hit in a vital spot and many have lived to fight on after multiple HP hits because they were not. The HP/ball consideration is a distant second to shot placement and I personally would rather start out with a round that's large and heavy when it arrives at the BG than worry about how wide it's going to be after it's done.
Ed
Last edited:
But seriously, that's easy stated that way. Bullet choice isn't quite so defined unless you know exactly what you're going up against which would be a rare thing.
