JPFO alert might make interesting reading

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

alan

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Messages
2,601
Location
sowest pa.
Personally speaking, while the prospect of "Billions (of dollars) for gun owers" has an interesting ring, I doubt that the cookie will crumble that way, as too many empires would be endangered. Anyhow, the text of the alert follows below.

ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP
America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization

September 6, 2006

JPFO ALERT: Billions for Gun Owners

Billions of dollars.

That's what may be waiting for potentially thousands of
gun owners who have been falsely incarcertated due to
the random, capricious, and yes -- fraudulent -- firearms
testing performed by promotion-driven ATF thugs. The
Congressional Research Services' memo
( www.jpfo.org/ATFguntests.pdf ) verifies the lack of
legitimate and standardized testing procedures. Furthermore,
in a letter dated March 2, 2006, the ATF acknowledges this
lack and states, "...the Firearms Technology branch is in
the process of converting these procedures into written
form." ( www.jpfo.org/atfwritingprocedures.pdf ).

Believe it or not, this is GREAT news. Why? Because heads
of this bureaucracy have officially acknowledged -- in
writing! -- that thousands of prosecutions have not been
based on accurate standardized testing procedures. _Every
case_ can be re-opened and CHALLENGED!

So who's going to pay for these lawsuits? In an ideal
world where justice prevails, those who profited by
railroading innocent gun owners with flimsy and misleading
"evidence" should be tried in court. If found guilty, they
should be held accountable: in additon to losing their jobs,
they should forfeit all of their government benefits, have
their assets seized to recompensate their victims, and even
serve time.

Do we think this will happen? No. Unfortunately, jobs for
"the boys" are more important than justice for American
citizens. The taxpayers are going to end up footing the bill,
but even this isn't entirely bad. Watching their hard-earned
money disappear into lawsuits, taxpayers will be far more
critical of the ATF's actions when it becomes known they
THEY must pay for the ATF's incompetence and malice.

Recently, Carl Truscott stepped down as director of the BATFE,
and has been replaced by Michael Sullivan, a sitting US Attorney.
Could the Department of Justice be waking up to the massive
liability posed by the BATFE? Are they trying to get the BATFE
under control before "billions" becomes "trillions"? Or is it
merely smoke and mirrors, putting on cosmetic reforms while
going about business as usual?

We suspect the latter.

This dark episode of government criminals falsely jailing
Americans is a cancer that cannot be solved by reform,
readjustment or realignment. Like all cancers, it must be
eradicated completely. All government agents, including members
of Congress, must be held accountable for their actions. This
is especially true for apologists like James Sensenbrenner,
who uncritically praises the ATF
( http://www.jpfo.org/sensenbrenner.jpg ) and bottles up
legislation that could help ensure simple fairness in firearms
testing ( http://www.jpfo.org/alert20050519.htm ), all while
boasting of his support for the Second Amendment.

It is estimated that right now there are over 1000, perhaps
even 2000, innocent gun owners who are rotting in federal
prisons due to the actions of both major political parties
who continue to fund the BATFE. We MUST let everyone know the
danger this rogue agency poses for Americans, and why we must
fight to abolish it immediately.

Our new documentary _The Gang: Using the Law to Destroy Your
Freedom and Security_ will not only get the word out, but make
it easier to pursue the lawsuits that could result in the
destruction of the BATFE. But it won't happen without your
support. Visit www.thegangmovie.com to learn more about this
documentary, and how you can support us in our efforts to
abolish the BATFE forever. Remember, the sooner _The Gang_ is
made, the sooner we win ... and they lose.

The federal regulation of firearms is destroying our freedoms.
_Anybody_ who defends the BATFE must be given the boot!
Protect your rights -- pass this alert along.

- The Liberty Crew

PS: LAWYERS WANTED! Are you a lawyer who specializes in civil
rights violations cases? If so, please email us at
[email protected] . We are creating a registry of lawyers to whom
we can refer gun owners whose rights have been violated.


==================================================
==========

JPFO mirror site: http://www.jpfo.net

==================================================
==========

LET JPFO KEEP YOU INFORMED -- Sign up today for JPFO Alerts!
Just send a blank e-mail to [email protected].
To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
[email protected]

==================================================
===========

Regain your freedom - download the song "Justice Day" today!
http://www.rebelfirerock.com/downloadjd.html
==================================================
===========

Original Material in JPFO ALERTS is Copyright 2006 JPFO, Inc.
Permission is granted to reproduce this alert in full, so long
as the following JPFO contact information is included:

Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership PO Box 270143
Hartford, Wisconsin 53027

Phone: 1-262-673-9745
Order line: 1-800-869-1884 (toll-free!)
Fax: 1-262-673-9746
Web: http://www.jpfo.org/
 
This is probably futile, but...

Don't fault the air force for not taking ground.
Don't fault the army for not flying.

You have different troops for different purposes.
 
My guess? They won't touch it. Too much like taking a hardline stance.
Click to expand...

Particularly since most of this testing is in regards to determing what is and isn't a machine gun, and we all know how the NRA feels about those.
 
Regarding comments/responses to my original post, that being the JPFO alert along with a brief comment thereon, and what role NRA might or might not play in this, I sometimes wonder as to whether the NRA has ever outgrown it's perceived need to be "gentlemanly and or reasonable" with the anti gunners.

Wayne Conrad mentioned, that the roles played by the Army and The Airforce are different. While this is obviously true, does it apply here, and does it explain the sometimes strange antics of the NRA on matters relating to firearms, machineguns, when last I looked being firearms, were part of that genre.

As to Otherguy Overby, and his question regarding the NRA position on this, since I haven't asked, I haven't the proverbial clue, however re what ebd10 and Zedicus have offered, they might, unfortunately, have a point. Has anyone inquired of NRA, re this alert?
 
Thanks for that entertaining post. Anyone that actually reads the letter from ATF to Len Savage will see the JFPO has quoted it out of context to push their lies.

What's truly entertaining is some here to choose to accept their claims at face value rather than actually dig a little deeper, to include but not limited to, reading the link in their own propaganda. Just a little digging would reveal their propaganda for the nonsense that it is.
 
Digging a little deeper?

Len Savage creates a belt-fed upper to be used on a registered M11/9 SMG receiver. There's a lot of this sort of thing going on; since the '86 ban, folks have been finding creative ways to do more with the limited number of transferable full autos on the market, particularly the less expensive weapons like the M11/9.

ATF says "it's not a machinegun nor a firearm; it's an accessory." Then they change their mind, and send the following to Mr. Savage:

We urge you to contact your customers who purchased the BM-3000 and advise them that they are in possession of an unregistered machinegun. They should be advised to contact their local ATF office and make arrangements to abandon these machineguns.

Further, please provide us with the names and addresses of those customers to whom you have sold the BM-3000. This information is necessary so that we many contact them and arrange for them to turn over the machinegun as they may be unaware that they are in possession of an illegal firearm. If you do not provide us with this information within ten (10) days of your receipt of this letter, we will take appropriate legal action to compel its submission.
Click to expand...

(Letter to Len Savage, 9 Aug 2006, from David H. Chipman, Chief Firearms Programs Division, BATFE.)

Ah, but this blown out of proportion, because all good red-blooded American NRA types know that only weirdos or nut cases are interested in machineguns. There's no way the ATF would do this sort of thing to people who only want to own sporting guns...

And of course those poor folks who bought them while they were considered accessories won't be charged by the ATF for illegally possessing a machingun. Geeze, the ATF never pursues those who inadvertently come afoul of the National Firearms Acts. Oh and that abandoning property to the federal government thing? Well, that's fair, isn't it?

(edited to correct date of ATFE letter from 6 Aug to 9 Aug)
 
Last edited:
DMF:

In response to my posting the JPFO alert found at the beginning of this discussion, you offered the following. By the way, re your expression of thanks, you are quite welcome.

DMF wrote:

Thanks for that entertaining post. Anyone that actually reads the letter from ATF to Len Savage will see the JFPO has quoted it out of context to push their lies.

What's truly entertaining is some here to choose to accept their claims at face value rather than actually dig a little deeper, to include but not limited to, reading the link in their own propaganda. Just a little digging would reveal their propaganda for the nonsense that it is.

--------------------

You appear to take exception to comment from JPFO. No problem in that, so far as I can, in general, see.

If however, you want to talk of "Lies", you used that particular term, how about taking a look at the output and the antics of the BATFE, as it is currently described, an outfit that seems more crooked than the proverbial corkscrew.
 
If however, you want to talk of "Lies", you used that particular term, how about taking a look at the output and the antics of the BATFE, as it is currently described, an outfit that seems more crooked than the proverbial corkscrew.
Click to expand...
Well, I have looked into what the ATF does. In fact I know several current and former ATF agents, some of whom are close friends of mine. They are nothing like you describe, and nothing like certain lobbying groups begging for your money would like you to believe.
 
dmf:
Since you seem to love the batf so much why dont you write a book
on there vertues so we all can be enlightened.
what organizations do you belong to, to support the RKBA.
Actions speak louder than words.


sorry rant over.
 
DMF:

I never described BATFE personnel per se as having horns and tails, though some individuals might well have both. Some gun owners aren't paragons of virtue either.

Quite likely, BATFE's problems start with political appointees, combined with some individuals who never, ever should have been allowed in the same room with badges and gunbs, or any of the trappings of authority.

By the way, I also was acquainted with one man at BATF, as it was then known. He is retired now, but he ran their Pittsburgh offices. So far as I could tell, he didn't have horns.

By the way, respecting my personal opinion of BATFE, as it is these days known, they go back a few years to the shooting of Kenyon Ballew, early 1970's by an ATTU raiding party. There have been a number of fiasco's in the years since, and several changes of name, however I submit that the problems in and with this agency have never been properly addressed, a situation that gives an undeserved black eye to a number of people.

As to questions that you might have regarding JPFO's efforts or output, I suggest that you contact Aaron Zellman, Executive Director of the organization. He doesn't have horns either.
 
BATFE? Since our WHOLE federal government is, pick one:

Corrupt
Misguided
Subject to personal agenda
Subject to political agenda
Politically correct
In violation of law and constitution

What one resonabally expect from them?

Not all government bureaucrats are bad but they do go along to get along. A reasonable proposition would be to fill graves with 10 to 20 million government employees and then give their jobs to illegal aliens. It would cut our federal budget by more than half. After all it's a job we don't want to do... :)
 
Not all government bureaucrats are bad but they do go along to get along. A reasonable proposition would be to fill graves with 10 to 20 million government employees and then give their jobs to illegal aliens. It would cut our federal budget by more than half. After all it's a job we don't want to do...
Click to expand...

just the kind of approach the antis love to see.

getting rid of a few million government employees is a good idea. killing them is unnecessary. they can be laid off or retired just like any private organization that finds itself with excess employees.
 
hey can be laid off or retired just like any private organization that finds itself with excess employees.
Click to expand...

& How Often does that happen to goverment employees?:rolleyes:
(USPS dosn't count)
 
. . . the shooting of Kenyon Ballew . . .
Click to expand...

The truth about the shooting of Kenyon Ballew:

Ballew tried to sue the officers who shot him, and here is what the judge said about Ballew’s shooting:

"Federal agents acted reasonably and in exercise of due care in procuring the search warrant, in planning the search, and in actually carrying it out . . . Plaintiff, who heard law enforcement officers at the door, and rather than admitting them and submitting to search of his premises, attempted to barricade the door and prevent entry and pointed a loaded revolver at the agents as they entered was contributorlily negligent. Judgment for the government."
- Kenyon F. Ballew v. US, Civ. No. 72-283-H, District of Maryland

There have been many lies told about that shooting by people who have an irrational hatred of the ATF. One author of a bit of “historical fiction” ( :rolleyes: ) has even falsely claimed one of the local officers who shot Ballew did not know what the warrant was for on the night they went to Ballew’s apartment, and had no clue Ballew was suspected of committing federal firearms violations. However, that is a blatant lie, as the affidavit for the warrant shows a large portion of the information used to get the warrant came from that same local officer, who tipped off the feds to Ballew’s illegal activity in the first place.

The shooting of Ballew has been twisted through many series of half-truths and lies, in a BS attempt to make it look as if the feds screwed up. However, the truth is Ballew attacked federal and local LEOs serving a lawful warrant, and the officers shot Ballew in self-defense.
 
Last edited:
Any association of any kind with the BATFE would nullify any association I would want to have with an individual or group. Calling in for the NICS or issue of an FFL could only leave a bad taste required to conduct bussiness.
Good looking lady moved in next door. We could get allong. She just got a job with TSA and I will never be warmer than neutral.
There are dozens of different sub departments and focus areas for most of the ABC agencys. None have as bad a reputation as the f-troup has created for the DOJ.
 
DMF:

The opinion of the District Court judge you quoted :

"Federal agents acted reasonably and in exercise of due care in procuring the search warrant, in planning the search, and in actually carrying it out . . . Plaintiff, who heard law enforcement officers at the door, and rather than admitting them and submitting to search of his premises, attempted to barricade the door and prevent entry and pointed a loaded revolver at the agents as they entered was contributorlily negligent. Judgment for the government."
- Kenyon F. Ballew v. US, Civ. No. 72-283-H, District of Maryland

does not really surprise me, perhaps indicating an excess of suspicion on my part.

Otherwise, I find myself curious as to the following.

1. Exactly what were the "illegal activities" Ballew was alleged to have been involved in/with, for it seems that it was these alleged activities that were the basis for the issuing of the search warrant. Also, as I recall, the warrant was described as a "daylight warrant", which if correct, raises question as to the time of servive.

2. The then Secretary of Treasury, Tom Connelly, as I recall, described the raid as demonstrating "administrative defficiencies". In plain English, I wonder as to exactly what that turn of phrase might mean.
 
Exactly what were the "illegal activities" Ballew was alleged to have been involved in/with . . .
Click to expand...
". . . Marcus J. Davis, had submitted an affidavit to the
Magistrate, stating that he had reason to believe that there was
then being concealed in plaintiff's apartment hand grenades which
were not registered as required by law.

"Shortly after the middle of May, in 1971, Special Agent Marcus
J. Davis of the ATFD received information from Detective W. F.
Seminuk, of the Prince George's County Police Department, in-
dicating that a quantity of hand grenades had been observed by a
confidential reliable source in Apartment No. 2 at 1014 Quebec
Terrace, Silver Spring, Maryland. Davis had worked with Seminuk
before, and the county police officer had previously supplied him
with verified information which Davis had used in his work as a
federal law enforcement officer."

- Kenyon F. Ballew v. US, Civ. No. 72-283-H, District of Maryland

. . . warrant was described as a "daylight warrant", which if correct, raises question as to the time of servive . . .
Click to expand...
(sic)

Sorry, but that's total BS. The warrant service began at approximately 8:30PM. Federal warrants, unless otherwise specified, must be served between the hours of 6AM and 10PM. Since they began warrant service at 8:30PM there is absolutely no issue related to the time the warrant service began.

"Shortly before 8:30 P.M. on June 7, 1971, the law enforcement
officers entered the building through a laundry room and then
proceeded by way of a flight of stairs to an interior hallway and
a door which led from the hallway into the living room of Apartment
No. 2. [footnote 8] At the time, the apartment was occupied by
both plaintiff and the woman he was then living with, Mrs.
Saraluise McNeil. [footnote 9] Special Agent William H. Seals of
the ATFD approached the door first and knocked in a normal manner.
When there was no response, Agent Seals pounded on the metal door
with his fist and shouted in a loud voice, "Federal officers with
a search warrant, open up." [footnote 10] Again there was no re-
sponse. Agent Seals then put his ear to the door and heard sounds
as if someone were moving away from the door. At this point,
having concluded that the occupants of the apartment did not intend
to comply with his order to open up, Agent Davis ordered the use of
a battering ram which the officers had brought with them. Several
blows with the ram were necessary before the door finally came open
some 12 to 18 inches. Agent Seals entered first, noticing
immediately that some effort had been made to barricade the door.
[footnote 11] As Agent Seals moved into the room, he suddenly
looked up and saw the plaintiff standing nude in an area beyond the
living room with a long-barreled revolver pointed in the Agent's
direction. Shouting, "He's got a gun," Agent Seals drew his own
pistol from his holster, fired a shot and moved to the left to take
cover. [footnote 12]"

- Kenyon F. Ballew v. US, Civ. No. 72-283-H, District of Maryland

The then Secretary of Treasury, Tom Connelly, as I recall, described the raid as demonstrating "administrative defficiencies".
Click to expand...

I have never seen any claim of criticism of the Ballew investigation, inclduing the service of the search warrant, by the Sec. of the Treasury, the Director of IRS-CID (the ATFD was still part of IRS-CID at the time of the investigation), or anyone in DOJ.

Further, anyone interested in the issue of whether the agents and officers participating in the investigation and search warrant were negligent should read the whole decision in Kenyon F. Ballew v. US, Civ. No. 72-283-H, District of Maryland. It is quite clear there was no negligence from the government agents. ". . . agents of the federal government were not negligent in securing a search warrant for plaintiff's apartment and in undertaking to conduct a search of such premises after the warrant was issued."

Then there is the issue of contributory negligence on the part of Ballew:

"Even had he been able to produce at trial proof of negligence
on the part of agents of the government, plaintiff would still not
be entitled to recover damages in this case. The evidence here
indicates that plaintiff's injuries were the direct result of his
own contributory negligence.

From the evidence here, this Court finds that plaintiff heard
the law enforcement officers at his door. [footnote 18] Rather
than admitting the officers and submitting to a search of his
premises, plaintiff chose to resist the lawful right of the agents
to enter his apartment. Attempts were made to barricade the door
and prevent entry by the officers. Even more imprudently,
plaintiff and Mrs. McNeil armed themselves and prepared to shoot it
out with the officers. After Agent Seals had entered the apartment
and fired the first shot, plaintiff continued to point his loaded
revolver at the other agents and officers who followed Seals into
the room. Even after the first shot, plaintiff could have avoided
injury to himself by taking cover and surrendering his weapon, or
at the very least by not pointing his revolver at the other
officers who entered the room after Agent Seals. His own negligent
actions led directly to the serious injuries he suffered.

The credible evidence in this case does not support
plaintiff's contention that he did not know that these men in his
apartment were law enforcement officers. This Court finds that
plaintiff did in fact hear the knocking and the loud announcement
that federal officers were at the door with R search warrant.
Although dressed in civilian clothes, a badge was prominently
displayed by Agent Seals who was the first law enforcement officer
to enter the apartment.

Whatever plaintiff was doing in the nude before the officers
entered his apartment, he was not, as he claims, in the bathtub
when they first knocked on his door. The evidence discloses, in
the words of one witness, that he was "bone dry" when shot. More
likely, plaintiff was not dressed when be first heard law
enforcement officers at his door and in his haste to arm himself
and try to keep them out, be did not take the time to clothe
himself."

Feel free to read the whole decision in the case here:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/ballew_v_us.txt

Not only did the court not find any merit to Ballew's case, when they found in favor of the government, Ballew was also made liable for costs. Again, from the decision:

"For the reasons stated, the plaintiff is not entitled to
recover damages for the injuries he has sustained. Judgment is
therefore entered in favor of the defendant, with costs."
 
DMF:

Thank you for the additional references in the Ballew case.

One thing that I remain curious about, respecting the unregistered hand grenades that had supposedly been observed in Ballew's apartment. Were they the same sort of hand grenades frequently seen for sale at novelty shops across the nation, the ones usually mounted on varnished pieces of wood?

I freely admit to never having been a great fan of the BATFE, as it is lately known, however letting my own personal feelings or thoughts slide, I submit that the record of this agency, and those that came before it is more checkered than I would wish my personal record to be.
 
Read the court ruling. Ballew wasn't making funny novelties, he was making destructive devices.

Further, the supposed "checkered record" of the ATF appears to be based on the many exaggerations, half-truths, and very many outright lies, told about the agency, such as those told about the ATF's actions in the Ballew investigation. The facts don't support your assessment that the ATF has a "checkered record."
 
Last edited:
DMF:

Re the court ruling you suggested I read, finished that a few minutes ago. Intended to do so earlier, but kept getting side tracked.

Personally speaking, I find that the whole thing has a "rancid" smell to it, however the judge ruled as he did, which seems to have "put the thing to rest", in-so-far as legal action goes.

As for our differences of opinion on this, the following seems reasonable to me. We have agreed to disagree. Thanks for the references you provided.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
JPFO Alert. Some might dismiss the following as simply more fund raising.
Replies
0
Views
329
alan
A
A
  • Locked
JPFO Alert, link to interviews included.
Replies
0
Views
299
alan
A
A
  • Locked
Congressional hearings into BATF, might be interesting, worth a look
Replies
15
Views
852
alan
A
A
  • Locked
you might want to view the Washington Times Weekly linked ad
Replies
1
Views
1K
Don Gwinn
D
A
  • Locked
Received the following alert from JPFO today
Replies
3
Views
600
alan
A
Back
Top