JPFO - NRA wrong in supporting HF297

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F4GIB

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Exploiting a Tragedy

The gun-prohibitionists are taking full advantage of last weeks' horrific killings at Virginia Tech University to push more "gun-control" legislation in the form of HR 297, The NICS Improvement Act of 2007. Introduced back in January by Representative Carolyn McCarthy (aka the "Queen of Gun Control"), HR 297 is intended among other things to dangerously broaden the definition of "mental illness" for the purpose of denying firearms purchases.

Section (102)(c)(3) states:

"The State shall make available to the Attorney General ... the name and other relevant identifying information of persons adjudicated as mentally defective or those committed to mental institutions to assist the Attorney General in enforcing section 922(g)(4) of title 18, United States Code."

Can you imagine? ANYONE who has been to a mental institution or "adjudicated as mentally defective" would have their name and identifying information sent to the federal government.

It doesn't matter if you needed assistance coping with the devastating loss of a loved one or combat-related post-traumatic stress disorder. It doesn't matter if you only stayed for a night to reassure a worried spouse. Regardless of circumstances, your information would be still be submitted and you would no longer be permitted to purchase a firearm.

The NRA is unabashedly enthusiastic about HR 297. They cheerfully assure us that the bill is designed to "fix problems" with recordkeeping while improving the availability of criminal history and "other" records for conducting background checks. (http://www.nra-ila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=197 )

Perhaps they should consider the words of President Lyndon B. Johnson, who said, "You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered."

As an educational organization, JPFO is not permitted to have a particular stance on this or any other legislation, but we do know flawed logic when we see it. So does Gun Owners of America, who calls HR 297 a "bureaucratic fishing expedition into your private records, including your financial, employment, and hospital records." (http://www.gunowners.org/a042307.htm)

In theory, if you were found not to have a mental illness, your name could be removed from the list. But in this day and age of such pyschiatric diagnoses as "Oppositional Defiance Disorder" and "Caffeine Dependence Syndrome", what's the likelihood of escaping without such a label?

The unintended consequences are obvious to any thinking person. As a result of HR 297, more people who do need mental help will avoid getting it. Fearing the consequent loss of their rights, individuals will refuse to visit a therapist or mental facility, and will therefore be MORE likely to "snap" when the pressure becomes too great to bear.

In one fell swoop, HR 297 will totally negate the decades of progress that have been made in de-stigmatizing mental therapy, while increasing the likelihood of repeating last Monday's slaughter.

Naturally, like any other "gun control" legislation, HR 297 would be enforced by the BATFE, giving them even more power to harrass and intimidate gun owners and dealers.

Way to go, [NRA and] Rep. McCarthy.
 
"Can you imagine? ANYONE who has been to a mental institution or "adjudicated as mentally defective" would have their name and identifying information sent to the federal government."

I expect more out of JPFO than that. It does not say ANYONE who has been to a mental institution. Sheesh.

I want my donation back. :eek:

John
 
Incredible. These smaller groups will do ANYTHING to try to get NRA members upset with the association. After all - .01% of NRA members sending THEM money is a financial boon for them! these groups will take any position, no matter how damaging to the Second Amendment, to fundraise from the marginalized gun-owner.

NRA has *always* said that, like felons, those adjudicated by a court to be found a danger to themselves or others should be prevented from buying a gun. That's just common sense.

We've got to be careful here, guys. groups like JPFO and GOA can put a noose around our necks as they strive for credibility. They will try scare tactics like saying "NRA is threatening the gun-rights of those who go to therapists."

NRA is right on target here. The problem are the uninformed and uneducated who hear something JPFO says and assume it's "the gun lobby" speaking. They certainly don't speak for ME.

Mike
 
Damn straight they are wrong. NICS is an abominable infringement on the RKBA and the NRA is selling out AGAIN.
 
Mike, the NRA's backgrond spells it all out. I care not for those without principles and constant compromising is evidence of lack of principles to me.

That said, persons who have been medically determined to be a threat to others should not be armed, IMHO. Perhaps a NICS check for them, but not for the rest of society.

Insta-Check = INSTANT REGISTRATION = EASE of CONFISCATION. So said the NRA, too, but they backed NICS. Find another lobby or, better yet, demand that the NRA stand behind the Constitution, Bill of Rights and US Code.
 
NRA has *always* said that, like felons, those adjudicated by a court to be found a danger to themselves or others should be prevented from buying a gun. That's just common sense.

That is tyranny. If you did the crime and served the time, you should have your rights restored. If your crime was so heinous, then you should not have been let back onto the streets. By making it hard for felons returning back to society to get jobs, vote, and be normal citizens..you are very possibly forcing them back into a life of crime. What do they have left to lose? They've lost their rights because people like you prefer to sell them out.

As for those adjudicated by a court and found to be a danger to themselves or others, what about if their treatment is successful and they're released? Now they're stigmatized for the rest of their lives by the system and unable to purchase a gun.
 
Quote MikeHass: "NRA has *always* said that, like felons, those adjudicated by a court to be found a danger to themselves or others should be prevented from buying a gun. That's just common sense."

No, that's an infringement on basic human rights. Ranks right up there with the BradyBunch's "reasonable restriction" on our unalienable rights.

How the heck can you justly seperate a FREE citizen from his unalienable rights?

Some states have instant reinstatement of ALL rights for felons after thier sentence has been served. Those states hum along just fine, no giant problems. Fact is, if a man's to dangerous to trust with a firearm, then he has no place in a free society. For questionable cases, I'd err on the side of freedom and accept the consequences and neccesary.

NRA and their pandering to the Brady Bunch is just sickening. As an isolated incident it would be no problem, but this is part of an ongoing pattern of behavior... they jump into bed with gun grabbers time and time again. And frankly, NICS is a farce, a bad idea, and an infringement on our unalienable RKBA.
 
"Pass enough laws and everyone is a criminal."

- Atlas Shrugged

My concerns are anytime anyone gets to 'giving in a little' to make little strides.

I am not comfortable with legislations that get enacted where "definitions" are "defined" as often there is a big hole for other "definitions" to fit into these enactions. I do not trust who is doing the definining.
DMV - whatever number we are on- just has way too many "definitions" to trip one up.

Is PMS still defined as being a form of "not stable " or whatever the psyco-babble is ?

Teachers that cannot teach , often blame kids , and with school board backing push parents into having a kid tested and want to put a kid on dope and get some "therapy".

No, the kid is being a kid, typical kid going through normal stages. Shut up teachers / school board about gun control and set up a BB gun deal on school and the kids will not have anything in his /her "record" about seeing a shrink, and taking dope.

The kids grows up, allowed to exercise the right to be into guns or not. Option is theirs to do guns, and if choses to do so, no "record of " anything.

Then again I against any gun control , and for less gov't period.
 
NRA membership

I haven't renewed mine yet, the yearly money isn't the issue, I am wondering if I still think they are doing better than worse. In the end, I will probably flip a coin.
 
ANYONE who has been to a mental institution or "adjudicated as mentally defective" would have their name and identifying information sent to the federal government.

Straight out lie. The Brady Bunch would be proud.
 
No compromise No surrender means No Victory

I may get flamed for this but while I appreciate the absolutist fervor shown here I believe it to be tactically unsound. I think that after a tragedy the NRA has to show the public that they are willing to endorse steps that could have prevented the massacre. To say that 30 dead and no controls on crazy people with guns is the price to pay for gun freedom is a hard sell.

pete
 
Imagine that, battling with strategy and tactics instead of knee-jerk emotions.

Good idea. I used to think it was brave and manly to draw a line in the sand and say "No more." Then I saw how easily my enemies walked around it while I was standing there being defiant.

It makes sense to me to send lobbyists to D.C. to talk to the Democrats and Republicans who are actually the ones drafting the bills and voting.

I'm all for less government and less gun control, but meanwhile Congress is passing laws left and right and we need to have people their talking some kind of sense at them. Maybe some of it will stick. And don't bother believing that Congress is ready to undo all of the gun laws. That's going to take a huge grassroots effort to change the face of Congress.

John
 
Let's see, we should listen to outfits run from garages instead of a 3-4 million member association governed by corporate laws and has a fudiciary responsibility toward it's members who elect the board? Sorry, I'm one of those voting members, attend every annual meeting, have worked closely with top NRA staff in my state for over 10 years and have seen much.

BTW, anyone ever vote for GOA or JPFO leadership? No. Makes it a problem when you realize they aren't being truthful, eh?
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=273063

Mike
 
All you're doing is beating the drum for more gun control Mike, that's all.

If a gun lobby doesn't even understand the Second Amendment they do NOT get my support.
 
MikeHaas, how do you deal with the fact that the NRA has consistently surrendered our rights when pressed by gun-control fanatics?
The tiger bites their hand, and they shove their arm down its throat in hopes of choking it. Doesn't work to give them more than they want, or 'compromise'.
We have to stop letting the gun-control people get what they want, least of all through cowardly 'compromise'.
I'll be sending money to JPFO and GOA this year, I think. NRA will come in third, if at all. It doesn't matter how big or strong the lobby is if it works hand in hand with the opposition.
 
I'm not sure which rights your referring to when you say that the NRA has surrendered them....

I don't believe that the NRA is necessarily surrendering your rights....the reality of life is that regulation of 2A is not unconstitutional according to the Courts.

The most recent court to confirm this is the DC Circuit Court of Appeals which in Parker deemed that the 2A was subject to similar regulation as the 1A.

THAT is why the NRA isn't fighting against 297 but rather for a version of NICS that is as reasonable/efficient as possible.

Remember that one of the upsides of NICS Improvement is that folks that are falsely rejected will now have a way of getting records corrected...this is a big win to many people.

Is it all good? Probably not but is it a BAD bill in its current form.....I don't think so.....could it be turned into a bad bill? You bet......and thats why it needs to be watched very carefully.
__________________
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
 
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