Judge: School Pledge Is Unconstitutional

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Desertdog

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Judge: School Pledge Is Unconstitutional - Yahoo! News
Posted: Wednesday September 14,2005 - 12:19:40 pm
http://www.sierratimes.com/rss/news.../pledge_of_allegiance&time=1126725580&feed=us
By DAVID KRAVETS, Associated Press Writer 40 minutes ago

SAN FRANCISCO - A federal judge declared the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools unconstitutional Wednesday in a case brought by the same atheist whose previous battle against the words "under God" was rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court on procedural grounds.
U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God."

Karlton said he was bound by precedent of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which in 2002 ruled in favor of Sacramento atheist Michael Newdow that the pledge is unconstitutional when recited in public schools.

The Supreme Court dismissed the case last year, saying Newdow lacked standing because he did not have custody of his elementary school daughter he sued on behalf of.

Newdow, an attorney and a medical doctor, filed an identical case on behalf of three unnamed parents and their children. Karlton said those families have the right to sue.

Karlton, ruling in Sacramento, said he would sign a restraining order preventing the recitation of the pledge at the Elk Grove Unified, Rio Linda and Elverta Joint Elementary school districts in Sacramento County, where the plaintiffs' children attend.

The order would not extend beyond those districts unless it is affirmed by a higher court, in which case it would apply to nine western states.

The decision sets up another showdown over the pledge in schools, at a time when the makeup of the Supreme Court is in flux.

Wednesday's ruling comes as Supreme Court nominee John Roberts faces day three of his confirmation hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee. He would succeed the late William H. Rehnquist as chief justice.

In July, Sandra Day O'Connor announced her plans to retire when a successor is confirmed.

The Becket Fund, a religious rights group that is a party to the case, said it would immediately appeal the case to the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. If the court does not change its precedent, the group would go to the Supreme Court.

"It's a way to get this issue to the Supreme Court for a final decision to be made," said fund attorney Jared Leland.

The decisions by Karlton and the 9th Circuit conflict with an August opinion by the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Va. That court upheld a Virginia law requiring public schools lead daily Pledge of Allegiance recitation, which is similar to the requirement in California.

A three-judge panel of that circuit ruled that the pledge is a patriotic exercise, not a religious affirmation similar to a prayer.

"Undoubtedly, the pledge contains a religious phrase, and it is demeaning to persons of any faith to assert that the words `under God' contain no religious significance," Judge Karen Williams wrote for the 4th Circuit. "The inclusion of those two words, however, does not alter the nature of the pledge as a patriotic activity."

Newdow, reached at his home, was not immediately prepared to comment.

Karlton, appointed to the Sacramento bench in 1979 by President Carter, wrote that the case concerned "the ongoing struggle as to the role of religion in the civil life of this nation" and added that his opinion "will satisfy no one involved in that debate."

Karlton dismissed claims that the 1954 Congressional legislation inserting the words "under God" was unconstitutional. If his ruling stands, he reasoned that the school children and their parents in the case would not be harmed by the phrase because they would no longer have to recite it at school.

Terence Cassidy, a lawyer representing the school districts, said he was reviewing the opinion and was not immediately prepared to comment.
 
Let's go back to the good old days when this wasn't even an issue.




"under God" wasn't in the original version so let's go back to the version as written by the author and as first adopted.
 
"under God" wasn't in the original

shhhhhhhhhh

your not supposed to point this out.

[party line]Clearly our forefathers intended for God to be mentioned in the pledge. [/party line] :uhoh:
 
Why that's terrible, without that phrase how can this country expect to raise good little Republican drones? :rolleyes:
 
I am reminded by the works of Bastiat that forcing morality and piety on people is just another form of socialism. It didnt work in 19th century France, and it wont work today. I wont miss the references to God in the pledge.
 
I find it odd that we would pledge allegiance to an inanimate object that has no meaning in and of itself.

If the red, white, and blue flag of our country comes to represent something other than the ideals set forth in the Constitution, then I certainly would not want to pledge allegiance to it.

I would prefer we pledged allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and the ideals set forth therein.
 
Cool! Y'all send all yer money to uncle delmar. It has that hated "GOD" word on it-wouldn't want you to be something you're not :D
 
Delmar

Shall I send you the dollar bill I carry around in my wallet? It doesn't have "Under God" in it as it's pre 1950's. I wonder how we got through the World WArs and everything without it. It has come and gone from the currency in fits of political posturing as well. When the bills in 20 years say "In the Pope or Allah we trust" will you send them to me?
CT
 
Central-I am no expert, but I don't believe american currency has "under God" anywhere on it. The back of the dollar bill has "In God We Trust". That has been true since the civil war, at least to my knowledge.


But, if I get any of those "Allah" bills, or Pope pennies", lets swap! :D
 
I remember as a kid having to remember to say "under God" after the Eisenhower administration added that in. Before that it was "...one nation, indivisible...."

To me this should not be an issue. The pledge is allegence to a nation, not a view of the origin of the universe, and I would be happy to see the older version .

With this issue being brought forth now makes me wonder if "indivisible" was added after the 1861-1865 war. Prior to that was there even a pledge of allegence?

Frankly, I have allegence to my fellow believers in freedom. I have little allegence to the slugs who have been running this nation into the ground for the last 229 years (2005-1776= 229 years).
 
OKay, Okay, Okay

Let's not stop with the Pledge... What about the Money "In God We Trust"... You use the money, you are affirming that we Trust in God... It is God-ly Money... Now spending it on bad stuff can bring up a whole other thread...

Separate Church and State.... Why do all the Federally owned Veteran cemeteries have neatly placed white crosses? (example: Arlington) A cross, I beleive that a symbol of Christianity. So the government/military is forcing religion on the dead and the family of the dead when the visit the site. (this is ment in respectful sarcasm)

This get's the blood a boiling... Less than 5% of the popluation, dictating what the rest of the population should do, see, use, and believe. If we could get the rest on the complacent masses thinking and taking active ownership of the reductions of our freedoms and the privilages that made our country great, just think how much better we would all be...

The founding father's did not want the country de-void of religion. It was the founding father's guide post which is reflected in the Declaration of Independence, Consitution, and Beginning Laws. They did not want what happened in England between Royalty and the Church of England to occur in America. Only one church, controled by the King, with the King tweaking it as saw fit. They wanted people to worship their own way. Being very simplisctic, they did not want the government to control the church, nor did they not want laws without the guide of a religious belief.

I know preaching to the choir.... There's more but, allot more... But my Blood pressure cuff is calling... Rant Off! :cuss:
 
Code:
Let's not stop with the Pledge... What about the Money "In God We Trust"...

Hold up! Me an Central Texas already have dibbies on that money-back off!
I'm skimmin catalogs right now for all the gun stuff............. :D
 
without that phrase how can this country expect to raise good little Republican drones?
I don't agree with the phrase and many consider me to be a Republican drone
I would prefer we pledged allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and the ideals set forth therein.[/QUOTE]Would "the republic for which it stands" cover all that
Less than 5% of the popluation, dictating what the rest of the population should do, see, use, and believe. If we could get the rest on the complacent masses thinking and taking active ownership of the reductions of our freedoms and the privilages that made our country great, just think how much better we would all be...
Thats why we call ourselves a republic in stead of a democracy.
If not for rulings like this blacks would still be going to black schools and sitting in the back of the bus and jews couldn't join your country club.
 
Joab,
Your correct about the republic, however the pendulum appears to be stuck too far in one direction at the moment...


Delmar.... There are not enough catalogs....
 
-

"Separate Church and State.... Why do all the Federally owned Veteran cemeteries have neatly placed white crosses? (example: Arlington) A cross, I beleive that a symbol of Christianity. So the government/military is forcing religion on the dead and the family of the dead when the visit the site. (this is ment in respectful sarcasm)"

Actually there are many others besides crosses if you ever get to visit. You will see the Star of David, The atomic symbol for atheist vets etc.
CT
 
My wife is buried at the national cemetary, and the headstones are rounded, with whatever symbol you want - some of the symbols displayed are really strange looking, and you pretty much need a guide to tell what they are. There are symbols for a lot of "religions" you would not expect the government would recognise.
 
They mark the graves with what the veteran identified their religion as, please don't cheapen the individual's personal faith by implying the government defiled their graves with whatever state accepted symbol some bureaucrat decided.

Do you want the likes of Schumer, Kennedy, Bush, Cheny, or some other politician telling you what faith you should have? I don't trust any politician with my faith and neither should you. Governments "job" is to do the bare minimum to protect the public from others and it not use religion to get more parasites elected.
 
Coming from the land of fruits and nuts. Where the Declaration of Independence and Common Sense by Thomas Paine are unconstitutional because they mention God.

Can we just declare the state seceded from the union and send in General Sherman II to burn it to the ground?
 
How about "so help me God" in the notary oath? Once a notary went bendy on me when I told her that as an atheist I would be committing perjury if I take the oath in its usual form. :evil:
 
The motto "In God We Trust" was not placed on paper money until 1957.

It did appear sporadicly on coins prior to that though.
 
Thanks c_yeager..

From the US mint's history section - IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. The first paper currency bearing the motto entered circulation on October 1, 1957.

We need to remember that most people view history only a short ways back. The more interested we are in a topic in history the more likely that we'll search further back in our studies. Many of us here look all the way back to the origins of our constitution and the intent and basis for the original protection of our right to bear arms. We shake our heads at the "revisionist history" and twisting of the intent of the founders by those that would claim, for the common good, that what study shows us as simple fact just doesn't fit today. In the 1950s in the midst of the conflict between the US and the Soviet Union showing the "commies" to be godless heathens also meant touting "our" godlyness. This in spite of the fact that the founders were concerned that the state would take on religion for it's own purposes. My grandfather used to grumble that "the Catholics" had pushed "their" religion into government and that "changing the money" was just another example of government "going to make it's own churches one day and tell people what god wants". (No slam against "the Catholics", just my hardshell baptist grandgather's predjudices)

The point is that these symbols that surround us and have surrounded us for all our lives seem to have been here forever seem that way only because they've been here for our personnal forever. Just the time we've been alive. But the reality is that they're the political product of a time when religion was used as a tool by politicians in spite of the founders being uncomfortable with the government having any hand in religion.
 
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