junkyard cutlery
- Thread starter sakimoto
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7X57chilmau
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- Dec 9, 2008
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- 687
sakimoto,
Your work is pretty damned good, if you ask me! Your blades show aesthetically pleasing forms, and you've taken some care in your workmanship, that's clear! You've made a few things there that I cannot make in my forge (specifically the sword, due to lack of sufficient forge length for heat treating....and sufficient quench tank for quenching....)
The wooden sheaths are actually pretty easy to make. I select a piece of wood I'd like to use (the dagger's in oak, from the local big-box store), cut out a blank bigger than I need by about 1/2" in all dimensions except thickness (only about 1/8" over on thickness) and rip it in half on the tablesaw with a GOOD blade (the rip cut will be the glue joint, and if the blade's good, it'll be almost invisible). Then I simply trace the outline of the blade, and go at it with a dremel and drum sander, hollowing both sides for the blade. I'll use a caliper depth gauge to cut a groove as deep as half the blade thickness down the centerline, and then feather out to the edges.... If you're careful, you can get a REALLY good tight fit, with no mechanical blade retainers needed... Lots of sand, hold together and test fit (in final stages, light clamping in a vice will help you judge "glued up fit")
Once the cavity is done, I cut a nearly final outline with my bandsaw, leaving about 1/4"-3/8" glue margin around the blade cutout...) This is easiest to do before glueing....
Now, glue the halves together. Clamp well and allow to dry to ensure a nice looking joint. I use cabinet maker's glue. Shape the outside with the tools of your choice, I often use a drum sander in the drillpress for roughing out shapes. Be careful not to sand into the blade cavity...
Sand ad-nausium, and apply the finish of your choice. I use linseed oil mostly.
The markings on the dagger blade (look like waterdroplets) are an accident, a result of me screwing up a forge basic. I blew the fire too agressively while heating for hardening the blade, and added more air to the fire than it could consume. The free oxygen in the airstream (which if I'm doing my part is all consumed by the fire before it reaches the blade) actually burned the steel, like an oxy-acetylene cutting torch, leaving that pattern. The "water drops" are actually places where the oxide scale coating protected the steel from the oxygen. I'll admit it looks REALLY cool, but it was an error. Many of my early knives show it, nothing recent does.
The single best place to start gaining forgeing knowledge is the book I referenced above, "The Art of Blacksmithing" by Beale. Also, Tim Lively's knife making tutorials, available online... Google his name. He also has a workable forge design (what I use, actually) for use with charcoal.
I sorta feel that we're pushing you towards forgeing, but realize that many knife makers DO NOT forge. Many are simply doing stock reduction, like you, and there's nothing wrong with that. You COULD stock reduce your blades, and then have them heat treated professionally by a local machine shop. There is great validity in that approach. I live in the middle of nowhere, and my neighbours don't mind hours of hammer strikes.... In suburbia, that may not be the case! You're doing great work with the skills you already have, and there's alot of refinement you can still persue before you need to head out to the fire. 'Course, it's a really enjoyable passtime too, so if it's what ya want to do (and I can't imagine not wanting to forge!), go for it!
As John pointed out, do take care with these blades. They carry a responsibility of ownership not unlike a firearm, and are just as deadly in close quarters. This is only amplified when, like me, you can't own a blade that ain't really sharp! That dagger will chop down 1.5" alders in a single swing.... Definately NOT toys!
J
Your work is pretty damned good, if you ask me! Your blades show aesthetically pleasing forms, and you've taken some care in your workmanship, that's clear! You've made a few things there that I cannot make in my forge (specifically the sword, due to lack of sufficient forge length for heat treating....and sufficient quench tank for quenching....)
The wooden sheaths are actually pretty easy to make. I select a piece of wood I'd like to use (the dagger's in oak, from the local big-box store), cut out a blank bigger than I need by about 1/2" in all dimensions except thickness (only about 1/8" over on thickness) and rip it in half on the tablesaw with a GOOD blade (the rip cut will be the glue joint, and if the blade's good, it'll be almost invisible). Then I simply trace the outline of the blade, and go at it with a dremel and drum sander, hollowing both sides for the blade. I'll use a caliper depth gauge to cut a groove as deep as half the blade thickness down the centerline, and then feather out to the edges.... If you're careful, you can get a REALLY good tight fit, with no mechanical blade retainers needed... Lots of sand, hold together and test fit (in final stages, light clamping in a vice will help you judge "glued up fit")
Once the cavity is done, I cut a nearly final outline with my bandsaw, leaving about 1/4"-3/8" glue margin around the blade cutout...) This is easiest to do before glueing....
Now, glue the halves together. Clamp well and allow to dry to ensure a nice looking joint. I use cabinet maker's glue. Shape the outside with the tools of your choice, I often use a drum sander in the drillpress for roughing out shapes. Be careful not to sand into the blade cavity...
Sand ad-nausium, and apply the finish of your choice. I use linseed oil mostly.The markings on the dagger blade (look like waterdroplets) are an accident, a result of me screwing up a forge basic. I blew the fire too agressively while heating for hardening the blade, and added more air to the fire than it could consume. The free oxygen in the airstream (which if I'm doing my part is all consumed by the fire before it reaches the blade) actually burned the steel, like an oxy-acetylene cutting torch, leaving that pattern. The "water drops" are actually places where the oxide scale coating protected the steel from the oxygen. I'll admit it looks REALLY cool, but it was an error. Many of my early knives show it, nothing recent does.
The single best place to start gaining forgeing knowledge is the book I referenced above, "The Art of Blacksmithing" by Beale. Also, Tim Lively's knife making tutorials, available online... Google his name. He also has a workable forge design (what I use, actually) for use with charcoal.
I sorta feel that we're pushing you towards forgeing, but realize that many knife makers DO NOT forge. Many are simply doing stock reduction, like you, and there's nothing wrong with that. You COULD stock reduce your blades, and then have them heat treated professionally by a local machine shop. There is great validity in that approach. I live in the middle of nowhere, and my neighbours don't mind hours of hammer strikes.... In suburbia, that may not be the case! You're doing great work with the skills you already have, and there's alot of refinement you can still persue before you need to head out to the fire. 'Course, it's a really enjoyable passtime too, so if it's what ya want to do (and I can't imagine not wanting to forge!), go for it!
As John pointed out, do take care with these blades. They carry a responsibility of ownership not unlike a firearm, and are just as deadly in close quarters. This is only amplified when, like me, you can't own a blade that ain't really sharp! That dagger will chop down 1.5" alders in a single swing.... Definately NOT toys!
J
thank again!
Thanks again for the advice on the sheaths. Again your work still blows my mind! Beautiful workmanship! Thanks once again for the information. On the forging part. I used to have a small charcoal forge about four years ago that I copied from Tim Lively. I was using it for about one year on and off. I would make small arrow head and small knives, but I dont have any examples to show as I gave them away in a move that we made and as you can see in the picture. My neighbors are pretty close now, but I have been thinking about forging again for awhile. I will let you guy know what is happening. Right now I am working on a rapier that I have finished and I am trying to polish up a bit. I still have to put a guard on it, a pommel, and I want to put a carved handle on it. I will show you the picture when I am through. Thanks for the information and advice! Keep up the good work.
Best Regards,
Sakimoto
Thanks again for the advice on the sheaths. Again your work still blows my mind! Beautiful workmanship! Thanks once again for the information. On the forging part. I used to have a small charcoal forge about four years ago that I copied from Tim Lively. I was using it for about one year on and off. I would make small arrow head and small knives, but I dont have any examples to show as I gave them away in a move that we made and as you can see in the picture. My neighbors are pretty close now, but I have been thinking about forging again for awhile. I will let you guy know what is happening. Right now I am working on a rapier that I have finished and I am trying to polish up a bit. I still have to put a guard on it, a pommel, and I want to put a carved handle on it. I will show you the picture when I am through. Thanks for the information and advice! Keep up the good work.
Best Regards,
Sakimoto
Macmac
Member
JShirley, "What me worry?" When ya go round lookin like this there are no worries!
7X57chilmau, you just stay away from the brown mud around Hallowell Maine! It's mine! And I noticed you had no French Flint (amber). No doubt the cherts you have are grey with black flecks known as Munsungan Chert, unless it is maroon....
sakimoto, You can bet I wouldn't have even bothered to chat with you if your work wasn't up to showing it has art, and a certain quality. It does.
Not only to you have the 'eye', but you are willing to work and some what harder than you should have too. For that I commend you. If you stick to it and learn from guys like 7X57chilmau, thar's no tellin what you might do.
I just learned 7X57chilmau is a young buck, and for all I know you are too.
From the little I know of the 'me generation' the best I can tell is they are concernd with this instant , right now, and won't work to get it. (this leads to having what anyone else can BUY)
The fact you fight with steel and have that eye makes a whole lot of difference to me.
This is OT too, but I made every thing in this pic. The long Nor West gun was a rough kit, the 1860 colt six shooter was a EMF kit and took time, That brass barrel pistol I made the barrel from solid stock, I copied a siler lock with a jewelers saw because I am not skilled in forging enough to forge all the parts in a lock, and the only 2 store bought parts are the trigger guard and the pommel cap, because I don't have casting tools. The wood stock was from a plank 16 feet long, a friend of mine chose to share with me.
This is what I look like in October
7X57chilmau, you just stay away from the brown mud around Hallowell Maine! It's mine! And I noticed you had no French Flint (amber). No doubt the cherts you have are grey with black flecks known as Munsungan Chert, unless it is maroon....
sakimoto, You can bet I wouldn't have even bothered to chat with you if your work wasn't up to showing it has art, and a certain quality. It does.
Not only to you have the 'eye', but you are willing to work and some what harder than you should have too. For that I commend you. If you stick to it and learn from guys like 7X57chilmau, thar's no tellin what you might do.
I just learned 7X57chilmau is a young buck, and for all I know you are too.
From the little I know of the 'me generation' the best I can tell is they are concernd with this instant , right now, and won't work to get it. (this leads to having what anyone else can BUY)
The fact you fight with steel and have that eye makes a whole lot of difference to me.
This is OT too, but I made every thing in this pic. The long Nor West gun was a rough kit, the 1860 colt six shooter was a EMF kit and took time, That brass barrel pistol I made the barrel from solid stock, I copied a siler lock with a jewelers saw because I am not skilled in forging enough to forge all the parts in a lock, and the only 2 store bought parts are the trigger guard and the pommel cap, because I don't have casting tools. The wood stock was from a plank 16 feet long, a friend of mine chose to share with me.
This is what I look like in October
7X57chilmau
Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 687
Dude, those are some great get-ups!
I'm in awe of some of your work. I get the feeling you make most of your own clothes, too.... Whole package, no?
Your stuff shows a level of finish I've never achieved. I'm gonna have to try harder.
The challenge, I think, is to be able to make do with what you have. With a knife and the means to make fire, a man can survive anywhere, and prosper with the slightest luck.
I've got some yellow coloured flints here too, they're somewhat softer than the darker grey/black stuff (some is almost black, and it's the best I've found), edge chips away faster when striking sparks... So it doesn't last in me tinderbox....
Last night I fired up the ole' coffee can in the back yard, tried a batch of charcloth made from some heavy unbleached canvas.... Came out pretty good, so thick it cracks when bent even tho it's not overcooked, but it catches a spark OK (not as well as the cotton flannel I used last time), and burns well enough to use...
J
J
I'm in awe of some of your work. I get the feeling you make most of your own clothes, too.... Whole package, no?
Your stuff shows a level of finish I've never achieved. I'm gonna have to try harder.
The challenge, I think, is to be able to make do with what you have. With a knife and the means to make fire, a man can survive anywhere, and prosper with the slightest luck.
I've got some yellow coloured flints here too, they're somewhat softer than the darker grey/black stuff (some is almost black, and it's the best I've found), edge chips away faster when striking sparks... So it doesn't last in me tinderbox....
Last night I fired up the ole' coffee can in the back yard, tried a batch of charcloth made from some heavy unbleached canvas.... Came out pretty good, so thick it cracks when bent even tho it's not overcooked, but it catches a spark OK (not as well as the cotton flannel I used last time), and burns well enough to use...
J
J
Macmac
Member
http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=24
The both of you guys spend a hour or more checking each post at that link!
It could be your post!..
Yeah I buy all that stuff at Walley world...
7X57chilmau You got birch, don't ya? Go find one that has a black mark like a burned section, and have a harder look. Keep looking for one that has that look forever.... The area may be swollen, and be splitting the tree. When you find one het a hand saw and cut that fungas out, leave some so more will come.
Dry it, and then try that with yer flint and steel no charring first.. The warning IS, if it cathes you ain't ginna put it out with out a bucket of water, so do that and then dry it again
Once you find it in birch look in cherry, but go birch first.. Please note I didn't say white, silver, yellow, gray, or swamp.
When you find any let me know, and don't go burining it all up.... I know you have it. It will kill the tree too.
The both of you guys spend a hour or more checking each post at that link!
It could be your post!..
Yeah I buy all that stuff at Walley world...
7X57chilmau You got birch, don't ya? Go find one that has a black mark like a burned section, and have a harder look. Keep looking for one that has that look forever.... The area may be swollen, and be splitting the tree. When you find one het a hand saw and cut that fungas out, leave some so more will come.
Dry it, and then try that with yer flint and steel no charring first.. The warning IS, if it cathes you ain't ginna put it out with out a bucket of water, so do that and then dry it again
Once you find it in birch look in cherry, but go birch first.. Please note I didn't say white, silver, yellow, gray, or swamp.
When you find any let me know, and don't go burining it all up.... I know you have it. It will kill the tree too.
7X57chilmau
Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 687
Birch I have! The only cherry 'round is the ornamental one in my front yard... Lots of alder, that's birch family, wonder if it grows there?
This the stuff you mean?
http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/tinder/tinderfungus/true.html
I'll have a look on the weekend. Shapin' up to be a busy one... me neighbours, a fine pair of middle aged Arkansas women, are gettin' married on Saturday (Us crazy liberal Canucks), and I think I'll fire the forge to make a couple more steels on Sunday....
How's tinderfungus work compared to charcloth?
Well, this thread's gone and blown all to hell. I'm enjoyin' it rather alot....
J
This the stuff you mean?
http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/tinder/tinderfungus/true.html
I'll have a look on the weekend. Shapin' up to be a busy one... me neighbours, a fine pair of middle aged Arkansas women, are gettin' married on Saturday (Us crazy liberal Canucks), and I think I'll fire the forge to make a couple more steels on Sunday....
How's tinderfungus work compared to charcloth?
Well, this thread's gone and blown all to hell
. I'm enjoyin' it rather alot.... J
Macmac
Member
No, The one I am talking of is impossible almost to say. My system is actting up too..
Search inonotus obliquus, and find a site with some pics..
If I go poof a couple days it will be over fighting this system .....again.
I see a few days before I made mention, sakimoto has found Don's site. Good for him. I might even log in over there myself. I'ld like to talk to the guys who forge hawks.
Search inonotus obliquus, and find a site with some pics..
If I go poof a couple days it will be over fighting this system .....again.
I see a few days before I made mention, sakimoto has found Don's site. Good for him. I might even log in over there myself. I'ld like to talk to the guys who forge hawks.
7X57chilmau
Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 687
Found it.... Definately goin' fungus huntin' on the weekend...
Fight the good fight, Mac!
Luddites in the land of technology, LOL.
J
Fight the good fight, Mac!
Luddites in the land of technology, LOL.
J
Look up Alan Longmeyer on Don's site. He's quite the handy fella forging 'hawks.
messerist
Member
good tutorial
Go to Tim Lively's website. He has an excellent dvd on the primitive forging process. It will set you back about $19(plus S&H) I highly recommend it
Go to Tim Lively's website. He has an excellent dvd on the primitive forging process. It will set you back about $19(plus S&H) I highly recommend it
Macmac
Member
hso & messerist thxs for the info. However dough is real tight around these parts so till something comes up, where there is any to spare vido is out. I will seek what ever info I can by mid Spring, and hope this time, there is time to get the forge set up.
7X57chilmau I dun battle with the dammned thing! ;D Looks like i won this battle too, but it took all day.
7X57chilmau I dun battle with the dammned thing! ;D Looks like i won this battle too, but it took all day.
Macmac,
Just read and ask questions at anvilfire and at don fogg's site. More info there than any 10 books.
Just read and ask questions at anvilfire and at don fogg's site. More info there than any 10 books.
Macmac
Member
hso, Where is anvil fire? Yesterday I registered at Don's and was given permissions to post today.
I just made a mild intro post a few moments ago.
All this talk about bowies, home mades and the like has be working on a old axe I wanted to fix up.
I always wanted a Hudson bay axe, and never could find one reasonable, so this is it sort of.
It will be like a Hudson Bay but with 1/2 diamond cheeks. I have a lot of picture taking ahead of me....
I just made a mild intro post a few moments ago.
All this talk about bowies, home mades and the like has be working on a old axe I wanted to fix up.
I always wanted a Hudson bay axe, and never could find one reasonable, so this is it sort of.
It will be like a Hudson Bay but with 1/2 diamond cheeks. I have a lot of picture taking ahead of me....
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