Just a Little Cornfuused here, Transfer/Legal Issues

[shaker]

I understand that any transfer of a regulated firearm must go from FFL to FFL. I called around today, spoke to one guy I used to do businees with years back and he wants $100 for a transfer and only transfers used equipment. Another place wants $55 and will transfer new and used.

The bidding instructions, say for instance on Gun Broker.com state that you must make arrangements with a FFL holder prior to bidding. I am assuming that is what I did by calling around and finding a FFL dealer that will transfer a new or used weapon for me at a reasonable transfer fee before I bid on GB.com or buy from a private owner. Am I correct here or do I need to go to the FFL holder on my end now and get on file with them somehow?

Certain firearms legality or regulated/unregulated issues.

I have also learned that in the state of Maryland (Prince Georges County) from the dealers I spoke to, that a regulated weapon is anything in AK, AR form and some other forms constitutes a "regulated" weapon simply by it's design nature. Md also stipulates that any rifle with less than a 16" barrel (marked SBR) falls into class 3 unless it has a flash suppressor extending the length to 16" plus. Same with heavy and light barrels, heavy equals no wait (handgun paperwork) and light equals a 7 day waiting period (form 4473).

Am I accurate here? I really need someone to check me before I go buy something from an out of state dealer that isn't legal in Maryland and p him off.

Jeeeez, I thought all the federal and state widlife permits I have was a hassle, seems I havent seen anything yet...

Can anyone add more specifics to what I should watch out for to make sure I dont stray from the regulated form 4473, 7 day wait class of weapons?

Looks like I won't be selling that old double barrel 410 derringer any time soon, things have really tightrned up in Md. since I've been into guns.

Thank You,

Scott

 

[lipadj46]

It is simple, read and know your state laws before buying any firearm that is just common sense. I live in NY and we are still under an assault weapon ban but I can still buy an AR, FAL, M14 or modified AK it is all in the details and knowing the law. Btw FFLs around here charge $20-$30 so maybe shop around using the gunbroker FFL search function.

 

[briansmithwins]

Try local pawn shops too. Many of them have FFLs so they can deal in guns. My local pawn charges $10 for transfers and are happy to get that for the 10 minutes of work it takes them.

BSW

 

[shaker]

Ya,

I know the deal on knowing and what you should have known. It would be nice though if you didn't have to have a law degree to interpolate what they are trying to say in those 30 pages or so that covers everything from box cutters to explosives. Kind of makes it tough on a guy who's just getting back in after 40 years. I'm just looking for a little tutoring here.

Scott

 

[Sam1911]

Hi! Used to live in PG Co., MD (USED TO, thank G@D!) and had to deal with similar crap.

First off, the 7-day waiting period is actually a myth. While the law says that the dealers are free to release the gun to the buyer after 7 days, I've had several tell me that if they don't get the "NOT DISAPPROVED" notice from MSP they will not release the gun. Supposedly the MSP comes down hard on dealers who will transfer the gun before the official word is granted. So, counting weekends, expect to wait 14+ days and don't get huffy if the dealer won't budge.

Next, MD's list of "regulated firearms" is an actual LIST, by name, of carbines and rifles that will require you to wait through a waiting period, and supposedly undergo a background check, before you can take possession of.

It isn't "Guns LIKE these.' If the gun you want isn't on the regulated list, then it is an over-the-counter sale. So, anything too new to have been included, like the P90, SL-8, FN-SCAR, Masada, etc., are yours the minute your paperwork is done. Also, there are odd holes in the list. For example (as you said), skinny (standard, pre-m4) barreled AR-15s are on the list. The Colt "H-BAR" target rifle, which is an AR-15 with a heavier barrel, is specifically NOT regulated. That got run through the legal wringer and now, unless you specifically want an old-school pencil barrel version, a lot of AR-15s will be over-the-counter sales.

Or, how 'bout this? A Mini-14 in a folding stock is a regulated firearm. A Mini-14 in a fixed stock isn't. My favorite dealer explained it to me this way. "I've got a Mini in a folding stock. You want to buy it. I take a screwdriver and remove it from the stock. You buy a Mini-14 WITHOUT a stock. You also, separately, buy a Mini-14 folding stock. Drive home and put them back together. Neither of us has broken the law and you saved around 14 days of waiting."

And, I'm sure you realize that magazines over 20 rds are illegal to buy, sell, trade, offer for sale, etc., etc. But not to possess, use, enjoy, fill, empty, fill again, etc. And as possession and use are not regulated, and there is no registry of ownership of such items, buying as many as you can in PA, MD, DE, etc..... Whatever -- I am not a lawyer.

Aaaanyway, $100 for a transfer is a RIDICULOUS rip-off. I'd only go back to that shop ONCE, and that would be to tell the guy and any customers standing around, to "*&#($& my &((#&&^^%#&&*@!" Half that is too much, but might be the best you can find.

Go, in person, to a few shops and explain what you want to do. Explain that you want a RELATIONSHIP with a local shop that you can do business with regularly. (If that is true.) It may still cost you $30-$50 per gun, but you should be able to work out a standing arrangement, especially once they know you pretty well. And buy some stuff each time you come in. They like that and it keeps the lights on.

Good luck, shop around, enjoy your new-re-found hobby! And if you get a chance to run up to /The Armory/ in Annapolis (you DO go there for all your machine-gun shopping, right?) tell Hal I said, Hi. He wouldn't remember me, but I like to keep in touch.

-Sam

P.S. - By the way, FEDERAL law states that rifles with a barrel measuring less than 16" are regulated under NFA '34. You don't have to hate MD for that one.

 

[shaker]

Thanks Sam

That's just the kind of wisdom I was looking for, what a bass ackward state Md. is indeed, in far more reguards than just guns as well. I cant sell that derringer because it doesn't have a trigger guard??? Has to go through a broker? Guess that's a Fed thing though.

Thanks Again for commiserating with me, have fun in Pa., I know you do!

Scott

 

[Sam1911]

Not all states require an FFL dealer to get involved in a face-to-face transfer of a handgun, but a lot do. In MD they certainly do, and, yes, that will mean a 14 day wait for the "NOT DISAPPROVED" notice.

I once helped a friend who wanted to buy an M1A get in touch with a club buddy who wanted to sell his. (Beautiful National Match Springfield with LOTS of extras and he scored it all for $1400. Wish I'd have had the cash!) An M-14/M1A is on the registered list. My pals decided that they'd save the dealer transfer fee and go through the State Police directly for the transfer. Which is legal to do. They got fed SO much misinformation from the MSP, who proved astonishingly misinformed, confused, about the laws they're supposed to be enforcing, (and even which forms to fill out for what) that they lost a month just getting the transfer done. If you ever have a state firearms law question, WRITE IT IN A LETTER and send it to the MSP's Firearms Division. They will eventually get you a fairly airtight answer, based on the law, as written, and will sometimes even admit to how blatantly ambiguous the laws really are -- but at least you have an "authoritative" answer in writing. NEVER trust the opinion of any individual MSP (or certainly any local!) officer. Get it in writing, from the source.

Of course, you are aware of the handgun list, right? Wherein for a handgun to be commercially sold in MD it has to be approved by the handgun review board as safe and worthy? A buddy of mine (who is in a position to know) told me that many of the smaller manufacturers and/or dealers will not bother to submit for the testing because every handgun they get in -- once that test is concluded -- gets cut up and scrapped. So each gun sent for testing is a complete loss to whomever is paying to try to get them approved for sale. A lot of manufacturers just ignore MD as not worth the loss. Might not be a big deal to see a new model Glock go through under the saw...but a Nighthawk or nice brand new STI? Ouch.

have fun in Pa., I know you do

Yeah, SURE DO! But I have to work in MD every day so I'm not completely free of it...yet.

Oh, just so you can check up on this stuff for yourself: http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/MDSL.pdf

-Sam

 

[shaker]

Thanks Sam,

I don't think I would ever trust the state police to do anything correctly considering the many times I have been misled by them over the years. I don't see any advantage in writting a letter for permission or clarification on any topic when the state or fed is involved, (a reply usually takes a few months before all those "wizards" finally figure it out for themselves) unless it's something that borders on a grey area I am going after and I stand a chance for prosecution if I dont get it in writting so it can back me up in court, never do it otherwise.

Ya, the handgun list, what a waste, typical beaurcratic procedures. A very small example of many that are leading to the demise of this country and free enterprize. Like NAFTA did us any good either.

Often I'll rock the boat on state and federal levels pertaining to other issues, but I'm a very good swimmer around those fools, just a bunce of unconsious incompentents (don't even know they don't know.)

Too bad you have to make the trip back every day, I grew up in Glen Rock, had copperheads for pets, miss it. If I wasn't so wrapped up in business, I'd leave and never look back. Montana's been calling me, loud and clear lately.

Scott