Just curious

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mcmurry

mcmurry

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I wonder why someone hasn't produced a decent semi auto rifle, no AR clone, in .223/5.56 and .308/7.62? Maybe something like a large version of the 10/22.
 
They exist. But they really can't compete with the AR at any level without costing several times as much. That's why everyone is on the AR band wagon; truly a case of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em"
 
Ruger tried to make a .308 version of the Mini, years ago. Called it The USGI(it had nothing whatever to do with either the U.S. Government or GI's). Couldn't get it to function properly. Announced in January at the SHOT show. Announced there weren't going to build 'em the following June.
Winchester made their Model 100 eons ago too.
However, the primary reason is that there is insufficient demand and the end price would be too high to develope such a thing. The design requirements for a single style rifle in a varmint calibre and a larger game calibre are just too different for it as well.
 
Other non-AR 5.56 mm semi-automatic rifles are available. Some may be better, some not.
Ares SCR
H&K makes some examples,
AR-18 comes to mind (not a typical AR)
Bushmaster M-17
Beretta has some
KelTech got one or two
FN SCAR has a good reputation as does a few other FN rifles.
Tavor is another one
Various AKs have been chambered in 5.56mm
Galil
CZ has the Bren
and the tactical list can go on.


For a non tactical look, the H&K SL6 fits, if you can find one.

List of wood stocked, traditional style rifles gets a lot bigger in .308/7.62 with the Remington Woodsmaster, Browning BARs, FNs version of the BAR, Benelli R1, M1A, etc.


.
 
There are quite a few semi auto rifles available that arnt ar format.

In the short actions tho its hard to compete with the ars price point and adaptability. Thus pretty much all of the rest dont get the play the ar does.

Personally id really like to see the winchester 100 make a come back. Ive always had a soft spot for them and the 88s
 
I don't understand the question. Nicely working semiauto rifles in these type of calibers have been available since 1900.

If the question is why there aren't guns that are in both .223 and .308, there are. But using a .308 action for .223 is a waste.
 
Sunray said:
Ruger tried to make a .308 version of the Mini, years ago. Called it The USGI(it had nothing whatever to do with either the U.S. Government or GI's). Couldn't get it to function properly. Announced in January at the SHOT show. Announced there weren't going to build 'em the following June.
Winchester made their Model 100 eons ago too.
However, the primary reason is that there is insufficient demand and the end price would be too high to develope such a thing. The design requirements for a single style rifle in a varmint calibre and a larger game calibre are just too different for it as well.
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Isn't a .308 Winchester version of a Mini-14 just an M14?

And they couldn't get it to work? That doesn't inspire confidence in the engineering staff over at Ruger.
 
lysanderxiii said:
Isn't a .308 Winchester version of a Mini-14 just an M14?

And they couldn't get it to work? That doesn't inspire confidence in the engineering staff over at Ruger.
Click to expand...

No, its not.

Rugers gun was a stand alone, I have no idea exactly what they changed, but it wasn't simply an M14, there wouldn't have been much point, there was already a semi auto m14 on the market (this was before everybody decided to build a gun if it happened to be popular).

Rugers gun couldn't ultimately meet their reliability or parts breakage goals, I don't recall exactly what the issue was, it was a long time ago. I think it had Ranch Rifle like scope mounts also.

Sadly, the earliest versions of the mini-14 had a nicely adjustable sight similar to the military sight on the M14. What they ended up with commercially was a pretty dismal sight in comparison.
 
I think what is available on the market for semiautomatic rifles is indicative of what the market wants. There are LOTS of semiautomatic rifles available to the market, but the market only seems to want M1a's, AR-10/LR-308's, and AR-15's. There's good market for the Mini-14, but no where near the scale of the AR platform.

Models like the BAR and the Win/FN SXAR do/did ok during certain eras, but overall, not great compared to the AR-10. Overall, when people want a semiautomatic rifle, they tend to want it NOT for hunting, and they rely upon proven military platforms as testament to reliability. Right or wrong.

I had a kel-tec, rifle was great except for the janky bipod/forend. Given a proper forend, I would have been much happier with the rifle.
 
^^^ I think the mini-14 was also a more arrtractive option back when they cost half or less what an AR cost.
 
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There's plenty of non-AR firearms in those calibers. They are generally just unpopular or expensive.

The AR15 is a free and established design, and the market is HOT for them. I'd have guessed the market is completely saturated, but we still have major manufacturers getting into the act.

Why throw away guaranteed success, and spend a lot of time and money on a new design that won't sell?

The 10/22 is direct blowback operated. It doesn't really scale up past pistol calibers (which was was attempted as the Marlin Camp Carbine). Stylistically, there's at least a few similar rifles. The 10/22 was designed as a rimfire companion to a .44 magnum carbine (Ruger Model 44 and later the Deerfield) and both bear some external resemblance to the M1 carbine.
 
A: The Ruger rifle was called the XGI. It used basically the gas system used in the Mini-14 which is NOT the same used in the M-14. It did use M-14 magazines. At the shot show they were introduced at I asked the Ruger folks if it would use M-14 magazines. They himmed and hawed and said they did not know. This was when Bill Ruger thought "civilians" only needed the five round magazine he shipped with his Mini-14. Being the sort I am I trotted over to the Springfield booth and politely asked to borrow an "M-1A" magazine, otherwise known as a USGI M-14 magazine. They asked why and I told them. They were excited by the prospect of finding out them selves any info on a potential rival for the 7.62 rifle market. I went back to Ruger and while my friend distracted the representative I inserted the M-14 magazine rifle in the rifle and performed a function check, then compared the two magazies......they were the same and worked the same. On being caught the Ruger folks were displeased with me.

B: The XGI was much closer to being an over sized Ruger Ranch Rifle than M-14. It is possible that some of the trigger group may have been interchangeable with the M-14 based on visual observations. I may have posted pictures of the XGI from that shot show earlier in my THR time.

C. Semi auto rifles in .223 and .308 have certainly NOT been available since 1900 as both cartridges were created in the 1950s.

I am surprised I have never seen where anyone did a good cosmetic job on a Mini -14 with the flush magazine to make it appear to be a 7/8 scale M-1 Garand or a decent looking 7/8 scale M-14, though some have come close on the M-14, one a THR member. Finding the old straing Mini-14 20 round mags is not easy these days and I regret everyone I ever let go. I suppose the newer slightly curved 20s work better, but they just don't look "right."

-kBob
 
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