Just got my first Colt: a new Defender.

[mini14jac]

Picked up a new Colt Defender on Saturday.
Took it right to the indoor range with 1 box each of the following:
Winchester White box, UMC, S&B, and Wolf.
All fmj, 230gr.
Also took 1 box of Winchester White Box 230gr jhp.

I picked up two Shooting Star mags, and wanted to try them out also.

The gun was controllable, but the recoil was noticable.
My other .45 is a S&W 457, and it feels almost like a 9mm when shooting it.
The S&W does weigh 1/2 pound more than the Defender, though.
I had previously tried a Officer's sized Charles Daly.
That gun was almost as heavy as a full size 1911, and the recoil seemed as bad, or worse than the Defender.

I put a total of 130 rounds through the gun, before my time was up.
It's a good thing I ran out of time, because the bottom of my wrist was sore for two days, from the upward torque of the recoil.

I've never been good at shooting from a rest, and this gun was no exception. I could hit a 8.5x11 piece of paper at 25yds, but I was all over the paper.

On a reduced B27 silhouette, from a Weaver stance, I could easily keep all shots in COM at that range.
At ten yards, large 1 hole groups were the norm.
Interestingly, the gun was very accurate with the Wolf ammo.
It also seemed to favor the Winchester jhp.

No failures of any kind with the two factory mags, or with the two Shooting Stars.
5 mags of Wolf, 3 mags of jhp, with the rest divided among the other 3 types of ammo.

I really like the gun.
The finish and workmanship are top notch.
There are some sharp edges that I will probably work on at some point.
I didn't care for the looks or concealability of the Hogue grips, so I just installed some hard rubber Officer's grips.
Haven't shot it yet, to see if the new grips affect controllability.

It really looks like Colt has got the hang of making a 3" barrel .45 that works.
I can't believe how light this gun is!

It is interesting that the same holsters that fit my Kahr PM9, work with the Defender.
It even fits in a small Belt Pak from Uncle Mike's,
that's basically designed to hold snub .38 sized guns.
The Defender is a little snug pulling out, but it fits!

Just shows the genius of JMBs design.

 

[clubsoda22]

get a sprinco guide rod for it. I have something similar on my dads 1911 and my taurus 92. My HK is similar from the factory. Really takes a lot of the kick out. It's an HK style guide rod with a second spring. Does not effect reliability, if anything, improves your guns service life


http://www.sprinco.com/recoil.html

***EDIT: The colt defender model will be available soon....i'd e-mail them to find out when.

 

[1911Tuner]

Springco

It also aids in extraction and feeding! It extracts money from your pocket
and feeds it into somebody else's.

Please don't take offense, but there are more gimmicks that are aimed at taking your money than there are shooters.

Reading over their claim raised a red flag. They state that the peak forces
can be over 1500 foot pounds at impact. If the slide hit the frame with
1500 foot pounds of force, firing the pistol would break your arm. I forget
the exact numbers, but a sporter weight bolt-action 30-06 rifle generates
about 50 foot pounds of free recoil energy, Their statement is absurd.

I can see how the inner spring would help to absorb some of the slide
to frame impact, much like a shock buffer would. You can buy a lot of
shock buffers for 70 bucks, and if reduced slide travel is an issue with buffs,
about 10 dollars for a machinist to reduce the guide rod head thickness
will usually take care of the problem. For a "buffed" range pistol, I cut the
heads to .050 thick, and use a .090 Hiett Technologies buffer. Total loss
of slide travel over a standard.090 inch thick rod head is about .030 inch...
less than a 32nd.

Just my nickel's worth...

Tuner

 

[clubsoda22]

Yes, their claimes are exaggerated, but not bogus. Hk has the same exagerated claims, but hk's do in fact recoil less due to their spring system.A shock buffer does the same thing but not nearly to the same extent, it is more to protect from metal to metal contact then to actually reduce recoil. Simple physics, elastic/inelastic collisions.



You just got schooled in the physics of kenetic energy.

The sprinco does indeed work, for the same reason getting hit with a foam bat hurts less than an aluminum one.

 

[1911Tuner]

Physics

Howdy clubsoda,

No doubt that it has some effect...Physics 101: Everything means
something...and rather like a shock absorber in that it slows the
slide during the last quarter-inch of rearward travel. My point was:
Is the cost worth the benefit? Or, can another, less expensive
system accomplish the same thing? Whenever I read claims that are
backed up by seemingly incredible numbers like that one, I begin
to think that the manufacturer is playing on a certain fear factor.

"If you don't use shock buffers and a heavy recoil spring, you'll
beat the frame to death in X number of rounds or less." ..is the
mentality that has sold millions of plastic shock buffers over the
last 25 years.

Engineering 101:

Whenever a change is made to an original design, other things are
affected, and three other things must be changed to compensate.
Two identical guns...one with standard recoil system, the other with
a shock buffer. One will run with the buffer and never malfunction,
the other one won't, and nobody knows why except the gun. Same
thing with spring rates One will do fine with about any recoil spring that
you want to use, while the other goes into fits with anything over 16
pounds. The slide timing is controlled by the recoil spring rate, and the
short-barreled 1911s have a pretty narrow operating window in the
timing department.

Lastly, consider that the recoil spring works both ways. Heavier slows
the slide's rearward movement, but speeds it up in the other direction.
If the magazine can't keep up, you have problems. Sometimes the
slide knocks the round ahead of the extractor, and push-feeds. More
problems that sometimes don't show up until the extractor breaks.
Bottom lug feet and slidestop crosspin take a harder pounding as the
slide goes to full battery. Feet get deformed, and barrel linkdown timing is
delayed. More problems, sometimes expensive ones. Just no such thing
as a free lunch, I'm afraid. I was smithing in the days when heavy recoil
springs were the rage because they "prevented the destructive frame
and slide batteriing"...and many pistols that came across my bench had
damage to the bottom lugs and the resulting delayed linkdown timing. Barrel locking lugs and slide lugs were damaged. Usually, by the time the
reliability was affected, the damage was beyond repair, and the whole
top-end of the pistol needed replacement.

Beware of gimmicks that make wonderous claims...Sometimes they
cause expensive headaches.

You just got schooled in engineering.

Cheers!

Tuner

 

[zeke]

mini14jac-got one when they first came out, it is the most reliable 45 acp ever owned, even with some styles of handloads that make all others choke. A target or gaming pistol it isn't (with full powered loads). Brownells carrys replacement recoil springs (the outer one). These need to be changed more often than full sized 45's.

The first ones had upswept beavertails, snag free rear sight and orange plastic followers in the mags.

 

[mini14jac]

Gee Zeke, I hate to get the thread back on topic.....

Mine seems to be awesome reliable so far.
The two mags that came with it do have the orange followers.

One of the reasons that I got the Defender were the claims that it recoiled the same or less than full size models.

I don't normally shoot my S&W 457 (.45) for 130 rounds straight, even though it recoils less.
Most handguns, I'll shoot maybe 1 box per range visit.
I don't feel that will be excessive in the Defender.
(Think about it: I was at the range 1 hour. I shot 130 rounds. That's more than 2 rounds per minute, not counting hanging targets, unpacking, packing, etc.)
I wouldn't shoot my P3AT (.380) much more than 1 box per range visit.
It wouldn't hurt my wrist but it would hurt the web of my hand.

I won't be changing any parts in the recoil system.
I think Colt got it right this time.

 

[BluesBear]

I think Tuner will agree with me on this one...

[Twang=Kentucky]
Don't go fixin' somethin' that ain't broke.
[/Twang]

 

[1911Tuner]

Fixin' Broke Stuff

BluesBear said:

Don't go fixin' somethin' that ain't broke.

Yup...or keep fixin' it 'til it IS...

Speakin' of which...I just had me a mean mornin' tryin to get a
Commander to behave. Finally hit the sweet spot on the spring
rate and extractor tension. Nappy time!

Got them danged ol' no feed, jammin' blues... (in Drop D)

Tuner

 

[BluesBear]

Just remember his motto...
"If it ain't broke don't send it to Tuner!"

 

[clubsoda22]

Beware of gimmicks that make wonderous claims...Sometimes they cause expensive headaches.

As i said, something similar on my taurus and 1911, no problems, lighter kick. At least 1000rds on each since the swap.

 

[Wildalaska]

Hi we have done numerous custom defenders...dont mess with the recoil system. Buy a few extras from Colt if you shoot loits and leave it be.

WildthatswhatidoAlaska

 

[zeke]

mini14jac-plus p loads will get your attention. The new 3 inchers have less felt recoil than expected, but still more than a 5 incher with the same features. Once shot several hundred (memory fade, probably more than 500) dirty lead short swc's through it, to try and get it to jam up (without cleaning or lubing). It didn't. Did learn that is good idea to keep rails greased, the frame rails are wearing. Also eased some of the sharp edges a bit.

Think ya made a fine choice.

 

[mini14jac]

Thanks zeke,

As lively as the standard pressure 230gr rounds are, I can imagine what +P rounds would be like.
No thanks.