Colt Defender Problem

[SunRunner]

I am having a failure to extract/eject problem with my Colt Defender. It is dropping the spent cartridge about one third of the way out of the chamber. The slide is picking up the next round to load and then jamming it against the failed cartridge.

I’ve had this failure with both WWB 230gr. and Remington USB 230gr. I did not have the failure when I tried 40 rounds of S&B but that really didn’t prove anything because I’ve also experienced firing 40 – 60 rounds without failure with the other ammo and then it would start to jam every other round.

This gun is about 4 years old and has about 600 rounds through it. I did talk with Colt about it last week and they told me to send it in for an estimate of repair. Prior to doing this I would like to look at less costly alternatives.

I really think just replacing the extractor with a good quality hardened one would fix it. My problem is finding one. Brownells doesn’t list parts for Colt Defender on their website. Not that I could find anyway. When I spoke with Wilson Combat I was told their bulletproof extractor would not fit in a Defender.

I’ve read on some old threads on The High Road that some people have installed one of these bulletproof extractors in their Defenders. I do not have enough 1911 experience to know the cross compatibility between the different series of Colt for these parts.

Any help with this would be appreciated. I've also wondered about the plastic followers in the factory magazines. Other suggestions as to what else that might be causing this problem would also be appreciated.

 

[Old Fuff]

The extractor may need to be retensioned, but also check and be sure the chamber is absolutely clean. When other causes are eliminated a bad chamber is always suspect. When you fire the pistol the case expands in the chamber to seal the gas, and if the chamber is out of spec. the case may be gripped enough to slow extraction. I suspect if the gun was returned to Colt they would either ream the chamber, or replace the barrel.

One of the strong clues to chamber issues is when some brands of cartridges work, while others don't.

 

[farscott]

Before you start adjusting the extractor, I would replace the recoil spring assembly. I had a Defender that was perfect until the recoil spring started to become weak and then it would do what yours is doing. My experience with the Defender is that the recoil spring assembly needs to be replaced every 750 rounds or so.

The short 1911-type pistols can be tough to keep running because the margin for error is so small due to the increased slide velocity and decreased slide travel.

BTW, the Defender is a Series '80 design, so a Series '80 extractor is needed.

 

[wally]

My priorities would be:

Replace recoil springs, spring life seems to be pretty short on the sub 4" 1911s, although I rate this least likely to be the problem since I usually see failures to go fully into battery when the recoil spring need replacing, not extraction failures, but its the easiest to do and sounds like you'd be needing a new one soon anyways.

Second would be re-tension the extractor. 1911Tuner has posted great howto instructions in the Gunsmithing and Repairs section of this board. This is what I'd bet on without seeing the gun given what you've described.

Third would be send it back to Colt, could be chamber dimension problem which you probably lack the tools and skills to do anything about. I've seen some very poor QA/QC on Colt guns these past few years so this is a very real possibility. IMHO if this is the case you should press them to fix it for free under warranty -- even their low end competition like RIA will do so without hassles.

--wally.

 

[Dustinthewind]

I would suspect the extractor in my opinion. I have a Defender and I have put thousands of rounds through it and have yet had a failure to extract or feed and it contains the original recoil springs. It handles everything from factory ball or HP'S to hand loaded SWC's.

 

[rcellis]

I can't help but note that, according to some Colt partisans, the Defender is the only small-format 1911 which does not fail.

Actually I fully understand why a simple thing like worn springs, particularly in a small format, could be a problem. That's easy maintenance if you ask me.

Some day I'll track down a Defender. Slick little gun if you ask me.

But, I'll insist that it isn't the ONLY slick little gun out there.

 

[Dustinthewind]

Kansas Plainsman

I too am from Kansas, south central to be exact. No Colt's arent the only micro guns that don't fail. I carry a Springfield micro G.I. model and it has many thousands of rounds through it. At first it was finicky about what it would injest, but after several hundred rounds it started to eat everything that was fed to it. I carry it because it is easier replaced than the Colt. By the way it has the original srings in it too and a lot of the time an accumulation of grit and pocket lint and it functions every time and all the time.

 

[rcellis]

Hum. South Central, eh? Three guesses where that is.

My first 3.5" 1911 was a Springfield. Traded it for a Para Ordinance Covert Carry LDA. Both of them were/are great reliable little guns. (The dealer I traded it to now carries it).

 

[SunRunner]

Thanks for all the great responses, I’d never thought about the possibility of a tight chamber. Actually that does make sense because of the way this problem started. After the extractor dropped a spent/stuck case several times it may have become tweaked a bit. However, I never did find the spent shell to be stuck for clearing but a few seconds of cooling could have masked that pretty easy.

I am going to tune and test the existing extractor and try 100 rounds of 230gr WWB. I did already polish the inside of the chamber with Flitz. If I can find out what the ID of the chamber is suppose to be I could also check that. And then I’ll go from there.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well there are "Service Chambers," and "Match Chambers," and these days plain ol' "sloppy chambers."

But according to my book a standard (service) chamber should be .4796" +/- .004" at the back, and .4740" at the front where the case headspaces. A match chamber (so called) would be tighter.

 

[SunRunner]

Old Fuff

Thanks for the dimensions. I didn’t realize that the chamber was tapered. Makes sense though. I’ll go measure it and then we’ll know the rest of the story.

 

[Old Fuff]

Actually, if you factor in the tolerances it's pretty straight. Tuner makes a practice of running a service chamber finishing reamer into new barrels, and sometimes picks up some chips toward the front. I think manufacturers are making chambers too tight in the first place, and they get tighter as the reamers wear. If you start with a clean barrel, and everything works fine until you get 40 to 60 rounds fired, and which time the cases fail to extract, it's a fair sign of chamber dimensional issues.

 

[Master Blaster]

My bet would be on the extractor, Colt used cast extractors on series 80 guns for a shot period of time in the 1980's, they stopped as these tended to lose tension and or break IIRC. NAd it could be that they just didnt sufficiently tension it at the factory.

Did you try removing the slide, and slipping a fired case under the extractor to see if it would hold the case? It should hold it and not release it even if you give the slide a shake. If the case isn't held against the slide breech face and easily falls off, you need to retension or replace the extractor.

A weigand tensioning jig is $25 and a wilson bullet proof extractor is another $25 BTW the wilson comes with detailed fitting instructions. And you will be good to go!!

 

[SunRunner]

Fixed

I’d pretty much say polishing the chamber and installing a Wilson bulletproof extractor fixed it. Today, 100 rounds at 6 yards, point and shoot, all on target, zero failures. Two hands, one hand, and a little limp wrist really didn’t matter. I was on the firing line at about 10:10am and on my way home at 10:30.

A picture of the extractors side-by-side shows how tweaked the old one was. I couldn’t really see that difference until I took the macro picture. Also notice how the bevel on the old one (stainless color) goes the wrong way. No wonder it didn’t work when the gun warmed up. It’s a wonder it worked at all. It does now and that’s all the really maters. Should have took more ammo.

Again, thanks for all the input.