Just got my purchasers permit...need advice

[115grfmj]

After three long months of waiting the Peoples republic of NJ, notified me my permit is ready. I'm a reformed auto man, searching for his first wheel gun. As I will be trading in my 910 it needs to fufill a number of functions
not the least would be as a defensive tool. I have pretty much settled on an L frame 686 (I like the action, and feel in my hands). I also like the 4" barrel for it's versatility ( hunting, target, carry, home defense)......but now
Im torn....do I want the six or 7 shot cylinder. I may use it for hunting with heavier loads, is the 7 shot cylinder strong enough to handle 180gr loads?
I also like the seven shot, for the advantage the extra shot might mean in a defensive situtation. However, by all account the six is faster to load, by way of Safarilands speedloaders, which only come in the six. I also want durability, I don't like to buy guns that can't last a lifetime, and i plan on shooting a lot of full power rounds.......as you can see I'm stuck
please HELP!!!

 

[Brian Williams]

Get either a S&W 686 or a Ruger Gp-100 and go for the 6 shooters.

 

[Highland Ranger]

Get them all!

 

[Black Majik]

Looks like me and you are in the same situation regarding first revolver purchases. I'm also an autoloader guy looking for a first revolver. If you scroll down a little to my post you can see my situation in detail.

Right now I'm waiting for a friend to stop by, then I'm gonna go look over once more at a S&W 686 6" Power Ported barrel 6 shot. I'm choosing the 6 shot over the 7 shot because my purposes are mainly for plinking and target practice. Furthermore, I figure speedloaders are easier to find in 6 shot over the 7 shot.

Anyways good luck! (Im excited with money in hand!)

686 6 shot!

 

[Ala Dan]

The Smith will have the better trigger; but the
Ruger is built like a tank! I opted for the 6", six-
shot Smith & Wesson 686-5; and have never
regretted that decision one bit.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Sisco]

My advice would be to move to somewhere that you don't need permission. But I would guess that's not an option.

I also want durability, I don't like to buy guns that can't last a lifetime, and i plan on shooting a lot of full power rounds

You just described a Ruger GP100. With the addition of some Wolff springs and dry firing the Ruger trigger will come around nicely.

 

[Jim March]

Something to consider: for hunting with a 357, that extra 2" out to 6" does help.

Ruger USED to make a GP100 with a 6" half-lug barrel - in other words, a lot of "extra metal" under the barrel is cut away in an extra manufacturing step. The net result was a 6" gun that handled like a 4", with the same "pointability" and "feel".

If you can find one used, and they DO exist, snap it up if it passes the checkout (see floating post top of this forum).

It's one of the best "do everything guns" ever made.

Short of that, you can always find a full-lug 6" GP100 or 686 and just chop off the excess metal yourself. If you have access to a slack-belt grinder or similar, you can get VERY pro-looking results, or use lesser tools and go slow. Any machinist with a milling machine can do the same. No matter what tools you use, DO NOT cut away the part of the underlug that holds the ejector rod and go VERY slow so you don't heat the metal enough to screw up the heat-treat. Find some pics of a semi-lug factory gun so you have some cosmetic ideas. Here, I'll show you:

Half lug blue 6" GP100, aftermarket grips:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976300562.htm

Here's a better look at a half-lug 6" barrel, this one the earlier Ruger Security Six model that the GP100 replaced.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976125549.htm - as you can see, it's actually a good deal less than half, with just enough "lug" to cover the ejector rod.

Full lug stainless GP100, all factory:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976429756.htm

NOTE: some people like "barrel heavy" guns and full lugs do reduce felt recoil...but at the expense of some "rapid pointing" ability useful in combat. My opinion is that both GP100 and 686 are big enough frames that unless you're a real recoil wimp, you don't need that lug. I'd buy a full-lug version only if it was purely for hunting and I was going to shoot nothing but totally thermonuclear stuff like the Bufallo Bore 357s, Cor-bon heavy hunting loads or the Georgia Arms deerslayers.

All 4" GP100s with adjustable sights are full-lug. There's a half-lug 4" fixed-sight variant. All variants are available blue or stainless, although stainless is a LOT more common across all types.

The same basic situation exists with 686s, except that 6" half-lugs were even less common and a blue 686 is known as a 586.

GP100s are probably a bit stronger than 686s (both 6 and 7 shot flavors). Cor-bon uses GP100s as their 357 development mules and has yet to break one. While the initial trigger feel usually isn't as nice, the GPs have their advantages, such as:

* Total field takedown without tools, except for one standard screwdriver to get the grip off.

* There's no sideplates - the action and grip frame "fork up" into the main cylinder frame at the rear.

* There's a positive locking latch at the crane - the front of the cylinder can't wiggle under the pressure of firing, at least not much. The S&W is basically unsupported out there.

 

[Flipper]

Sisco is absolutely correct. Go for the Ruger GP-100. I have a 4 inch 357 blue with the full underlug and it seems indestructible. I dry fire practice at night lookin' at TV and that trigger just keeps gettin' better all the time. Check one out.

 

[Stainz]

A new 'Stocking Dealer' S&W special is the 5" partial lug 686+ with Ahrend's wood grips - really nice looking, and about the same price as the regular 4" 686+. As to availability of 686+ 7-shot speedloaders, it isn't a problem. Now, if you want 'nuclear' level .357 Magnum loads, you might consider the Ruger GP-100, a crude Mack truck by comparison to the sports car-like S&W. BTW, even the smallest .357 Magnum S&W makes, the K-frame 66's, will handle all commercial .357 Magnum loads. My sole .357 Magnum is a 6" 66 - admittedly destined here to only launch .38 Special plinkers - but a real work of useable art, despite it's ugo hammer lock.

My best comparison between the lines is my .45 Colt S&W 625 Mountain Gun compared with my new Ruger .45 Colt 5.5" SS Redhawk. The S&W is thin-walled, and limited to lower level .45 Colt loads, while the Redhawk reportedly can launch spent uranium fuel pellets powered by C4 and ignited by blasting caps! Of course, the sharp edges of the Redhawk's trigger, etc, may draw my blood... and that MG would be easier to empty both more quickly and accurately due to it's better action... and better attention to QC.

For 'normal' .357 Magnum use, I'd go with S&W....

Stainz

 

[Nick96]

Somewhat off topic - but I still find it hard to believe that there are places in the U.S. where gun rights are so very restricted. Having lived in the south & southwest all my life, it's almost inconceivable to me that someone would actually have to have a "permit" to buy a gun. A bottle of Whisky and a car are far more dangerous weapons in the wrong hands - but either can be had anywhere by anyone over 21 years old with enough money.

That said though - if I had to choose just one handgun very carefully, I think I'd go for a Ruger GP 100 .357 Mag. - stainless - fixed sights - smaller grip - with a 3" barrel. The most universally "useful" gun around in my opinion.

 

[115grfmj]

I know, I know.....I would move if I could but.....kids...house...job..all very difficult to just pick up and go any more, maybe ten years ago......
Any way I know the rugers are outstanding guns, I just like the smith better. Also what I really wanted to know was if you guys think I should get either the six or seven shooter, and why you do.


P.S. It takes 3 months just to get a Firearms ID card, here in NJ, and you still need to file for a pistol purchasers permit which is an additional 5 bucks and 5 days. That is only good for the purchase of one pistol, and it expires after 90 days. Hence the term PR NJ

 

[Nick96]

I won't say anything negative about the S&W 686 - it's a fine revolver. As centerfire revolvers go though, I just don't care for anything over a "6 cylinder". If defence is your concern, you best be concerned with something that's readily at hand, reliable, controllable and of adequate power rather than extra shots. Six shots is going to be more than adequate for 98%+ of defensive shooting situations you are likely to encounter as a private citizen.

Personally, I think a handgun is a poor choice for hunting anything other than ground hogs, rabbits, rats & other such rodents. Using one to finally put a wounded animal out of it's misery is one thing - but a clean, one shot kill with a handgun is very iffy - even with a substantial caliber, finely tuned & sighted handgun and an experienced shooter. But that's just my opinion.

It sounds like you want a sturdy, reliable, reasonably accurate & versitile handgun. A .357 Mag is an excellent choice given the versitility of loadings and bullet configurations available (all .38 Spls through .357 Mag). Adjustible sights are good for compensating for poor trigger technique - but at close ranges (under 15 yards), they really aren't necessary. Again, just my opinion. A .357 Mag of any barrel length is going to be adequate for defense. A 3" Ruger GP-100 will give you adequate weight for recoil control. Enough sight radius for acceptable handgun accuracy. And will be physically small enough for you to carry around discreately if necessary. Some may argue this - but the Ruger is at least equal to the S&W 686 in terms of strength and durability - and most will argue it is superior. What it lacks in out of the box trigger smoothness is easily corrected with some dry firing & a little "do it yourself" polishing & lubing. And, it costs less - which means more money for ammo & practice.

Get whatever strikes your fancy - there are no really bad choices among the major manufacturers. I'm just coming at this from the perspective of - I can only have one handgun - what would I pick?

 

[Eskimo Jim]

115,
I like the 686 with a 4" barrel. I also like the model 66 with a 4" barrel. The 66 is a K frame and is about 4 ounces lighter than the comparable 686 L frame. The lighter weight makes the K frame a little more pleasant to carry. The disadvantage to a new S&W is the internal lock. I don't like it because I'm liable to lose the key.

I haven't tried the Ruger but it does have a reputation as a very durable revolver. I've read where lots of people were very satisfied with its performance. The down side to a Ruger is probably the trigger, however that can be improved with trigger work and breaking it in.

I'd suggest a 6 shooter versus a 7+ shooter just because it is probably easier to find good speed loaders that hold 6 cartridges rather than 7 cartidges.

I don't think that you can go wrong with any of the revolvers that you mentioned. I bought the S&W 66 and 686 because they both felt good and the price was right at the time. I just wasn't taken by the GP-100's looks.

The .357 magnum might be a little light for taking medium size game, but would probably work well for self defense and smaller game.

Good luck. Tell us what you get and how it shoots.

-Jim

 

[sgtmaj13]

OK. You like the S&W686. You live in NJ, so we know you can't carry or hunt in Jersey with a handgun. So, that leave SD, plinking, and range work. My $.02 worth is to go with the the 4" 6 shot for the following reasons:

1. 4" has adequate sight radius, good balance, easier to manipulate one handed when using flashlight, faster sight aquisition.
2. 6 shot speed loaders are more readily available (you will need these if you ever have to use your weapon for SD or shoot IDPA).
3. 6 shots should be adequate for any reasonable use of a revolver. If you anticipate taking on a herd of gang bangers switch to 8rd riotgun + 15rd semi-auto + 6rd BUG + bring friends, pack a lunch, oh and call your lawyer.
4. Effective use of a handgun is more a matter of ammo selection and marksmanship. 6 vs. 7 rds is a significantly lesser issue.

Hope this is of some small assistance to you.

 

[Hal]

Get the 6 shot.
It indexes the same as it's larger bretheran (.44 - .45) based on the N frame.

Sooner or later it'll occur to ya that a .357 w/out the benefit of good hollowpoints isn't all that great for defense.(IIRC, doesn't NJ outlaw hollowpoints for honest citizens/)

That way when you move up to a large caliber, the "feel" will be the same.

 

[Tamara]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't JHP's verboten in the PRNJ? If so, have you considered a .44 or .45 instead of a .357?

 

[Norm Lee]

686

Hey 115grfmj

The Smith 686 is damn near the ideal wheelgun. You are going to love it.
Get the 7 shot version. No good reason not to have an extra round and probably all sorts of good reasons to have one. Don't worry about strength. The 7 shot cylinders may be stronger than the 6 shot versions as the bolt cut lies between the chambers. On a 6 shot cylinder this is the thinnest part. The cylinder indexes into position a little more quickly. This is no big deal if you shoot single action or slowly and deliberately in DA mode. BUT, if ever you get proficient at DA shooting and feel the need for speed this is a great help in the accuracy department. There is some extra time after the chamber lines up with the forcing cone and before the hammer is at full stroke. On the seven shooter all you are doing then is storing energy in the main spring. This allows you to dress up the sight picture nicely.
There are lots of types of speedloaders readily available for the 7 shooters. They are so popular you might have more trouple finding the 6 shot version
I had mine cut for moonclips and that works well too.

Cheers,

Norm

 

[Airboss]

First Revolver

Look around a little and see if you can find a M-28 or a M-27 Smith,Generaly they will cost you less than a new 686 .357 and IMHO are better built.6"or4"Should work for all the uses you describe,the gun will be nicer and you can spend any saveings on ammo.

 

[EricF]

You need a purchasers permit to buy a hand gun in North Carolina also. I am going through the process now to get a new wheelgun. I myself am considering getting a GP-100. I think our politicians came from NJ. I should have stayed in SC.

 

[jar]

It's pretty hard tp go wrong with any of the guns mentioned so far. $" is great for carry but it's unlikely you're going to do that, so seriously consider the 6". The longer sight radius does make a difference.

I would stay away from porting. It simply isn't needed and makes maintenance a bitch. I prefer the 6 shot but 7 or 8 are fine if you want them.

While you're looking, keep your eyes open for a 44 Mag. Shooting 44 Special in the 44 Mag is a sheer joy while the 44 Mag is still awsome.

 

[PigPen]

Shooting 44 Special in the 44 Mag is a sheer joy while the 44 Mag is still awsome

I agree! And .44mag is not too bad.........but it sure is more than .44 special....a proven man stopper and a great game stopper!!


BTW, N. Carolina decided a few years ago (When NICS became available and left the counties nothing to do for the money) to drop the handgun "fee" and leave it optional for each county as to whether to continue collecting the service fee or not. Of course every county that I know about, bitched and bitched and then elected to keep the fee for a background check (already being done by the feds). There must be some counties that do not require it but I honestly do not know them.

Isn't there an honest county somewhere in North Carolina who understands taking money that you have not earned is the same as stealing?

Sorry about the rant.....didn't mean to steal the thread.....consider a 629 .

PigPen

 

[RightIsRight]

Hollow points are not illegal in NJ.

You can possess them at your home or business (that you own). They can be transported from place of purchase to home/business and between home and business. They can also be transported from home to range/hunting grounds.

However, if you are caught with one rolling around the floor of your car while you leave the local watering hole, you can be charged with a felony (fourth degree).

 

[RightIsRight]

BTW 115gr,

Your pistol permits should cost $2 a piece, not $5. And you can get as many as you want at one time. I just put in for another 6.

Also, you can get a 90 day extension for free.

 

[russlate]

Spotted one I wanted in Reno, NV, and had it in the truck and leaving in 10 minutes. Could have been 5 minutes, but the shop owner was retiring and wanted to jaw a bit. ( No NICS check needed - just my driver's license and carry permit, and I paid cash ).