Just got through watching Deliverance!

[Rigby470]

And I was reminded why I am so adamant about carrying my handgun on camping trips!

But I got to thinking about the whole issue of water. What would you do to keep your firearm/ammo dry, but yet still be able to quick draw on some toothless, brain-damaged, genetically-deprived butt pirate?

 

[joab]

I watched it also, unfortunately I was reminded of my roots.
Which explains why I have always carried a gun while camping

 

[real_name]

Glock.

Plastic floats.

 

['Card]

I do a lot of kayaking. I load my gear on my 'yak, paddle and fish until it starts to get dark, and then I pull over and make camp. I just carry my pistol in a holster on my right thigh in a MOLLE dropleg platform. It gets splashed a lot, and immersed occasionally, but it doesn't seem to mind. I just make sure to give it a good cleaning every night. Cleaning your gun by the light of a campfire after a long day on the river is a uniquely satisfying experience, in my opinion.

I used to carry a Glock. Now I carry an XD-45ACP. Neither one has seemed to have any problems or performance issues with this. I generally seal my rifles in a long dry bag (check Northwest River Supply for those) when I kayak in to a remote hunting spot, but with pistols I haven't found that to be necessary.

As for ammo... two mags of it get dipped and dunked just like the pistol. The rest of the box is usually in a ziploc in my pack. Never had a problem there, either.

Oh, and as a native West Virginian I'd just like to take this chance to point out that Deliverance was filmed in Tennessee - not (as is often alleged) West Virginia.

 

[wbond]

Well I hope you didn't get turned on watching Deliverance.

You know I'm kidding about that, right?

Seriously though, I'd read a report on ammo water proofing. I used to have a strong interest in 9x18 pistols and still do somewhat. Much of the foreign made 9x18 ammo is water proofed around primer and case mouth with laquer to keep water out in the wet Russian, Czech, Polish, etc weather.

I read about a test where a guy submerged some laquer water proofed 9x18 ammo and also some American made non laquered 9x18 ammo in a bucket of fresh water.

He tested some ammo each day for 3 days. All ammo fired after 3 days submerged in fresh water. I suppose that means the laquered ammo could be submerged longer and still work. However, the test was only a 3 day test.

Bottom line is don't worry about hillbillies getting at your bottom. It you still worry, then put 50 rounds of your ammo in a bucket of water and then try to shoot one round each hour after submerging. After 24 hours you'll need some sleep. So then just test every 12 hours. You'll probably find the ammo works fine, even after 3 days of submersion.

This is a fresh water test only. Salt water would likely ruin ammo much faster and would not be good for your gun. If you want to test in salt water, clean your gun as soon as possible after each test shot.

I don't know, but I suspect that ammo submerged in salt water up to 24 hours would still work, but would rust your gun (unless you cleaned it right away). However, if toothless hill billies are trying to pull down your pants, you won't care about a rusting gun.

Ammo is water proof enough. Just make sure you dump water out of the barrel first, then defend your rear-end.

Alternatively, you could buy one of those Pelican gun cases that's guaranteed water-proof down to 30 feet. I've got one for my digital camera. I don't worry about my guns that much.

 

[neil minor]

'Card,

Are you sure the movie was filmed in Tennessee? I thought it was filmed in Georgia. Anyway, the movie was "situated" in Georgia.

I'm not sure what the piece is called, but I believe it fits onto the striker assembly of a Glock which makes it very reliable around water activities.

I carry when I go camping.

 

[joab]

the movie was filmed entirely in Georgia.
The book never mentions the true location

 

[wbond]

To Joab:

Quoting Joab: I watched it also, unfortunately I was reminded of my roots.
Which explains why I have always carried a gun while camping.

Reply from Wbond: Amen. It reminds me of my roots too. I'm a white collar type guy, but I grew up around rednecks and hill billies such that they were the majority. The violent majority.

They weren't sexually deviant (that I know of), but they were sure ignorant, violent, and proud of it. I still live in that type of area now. Yes, we have those types of idiots galore in Northern Oregon and Southern Washington State. They don't talk the same as rednecks in Georgia, but the attitude is the same. However, we also have good people too and I'm sure there are also good people in Georgia. I only mention GA because that's the setting of the movie.

As an adult, I had my neck broken in a car wreck, but am walking and working again, but will always be handicapped. I need every advantage I can get. My guns for example. I still run into those same rednecks from my youth and new ones to. Do you think they have any mercy on a handicapped person? I think you already know the answer to that.

The guns are a hobby to me, but also a necessity.

I know that a lot of the lawyers, landlords, and real estate agents carry guns around here. Even accountants and dentists. I just ran into my dentist in the gun store the other day. The point is that I'm not alone in the sense that the white collar types around here feel beseiged and threatened. In my case, it's worse due to being handicapped. However, as a handicapped person, I also enjoy some greater legal protections against assault or robbery. However those legal protections are all "after the fact" increased punishments for attackers. That doesn't help me because the criminals are to stupid to know the law. They don't know they'd get a stiffer sentence for attacking a handicapped person.

If it seems I'm confusing the difference between rednecks and criminals, that's because I don't see much difference. The rednecks I know are either criminals already, or possess the capacity to become criminals when the opportunity presents itself.

I used to live in the country. Now I live in the city. They both have criminal types and potentially dangerous people. They act different in some ways, but the common denominators of bad folks in country or city are ignorance, bully mentality, and the potential for violent behavior.

These type people are preditors, whether in country or city. They look for weak victoms. Can it be a cooincidence that no one has ever bothered me when I'm packing? I think that I feel more confident and it shows. So they find a more inviting target. Perhaps that is just cooincidence. Not sure.

 

[joab]

Uh Oh, you did it now

Now we're gonna have a long debate over the difference between white trash, rednecks and hillbillies.

I used to engage in those arguments.
I have since learned to listen to what the person says not how they say it

 

[wbond]

To Joab:

I'm not down on anyone because of how they talk, or what they look like, or wear they are from.

I'm only judging people by their behavior towards others. If that behavior is a combination of ignorance combined with a bully mentality, then I don't like them.

This applies regardless of color, regardless of where they are from, regardless of how they talk.

If they are friendly, decently behaved people, then they're good people whether in country or city.

My observations are based only on behavior towards others. i.e. - do they treat other people with a reasonable level of respect. That's all I ask from anyone.

If the word "redneck" bothers anyone, then substitute the word of your choice. However, I'm white, the community I live in and surrounding ones are white, and the trouble makers are white. So I thought the word "redneck" was appropriate. "White trash" would also have been appropriate. I've been tormented by these types my whole life. I think I've earned the right to use the word redneck or white trash. However, those words might mean other things to other people. So perhaps I should just use the phrase "bad people" from now on to be PC and avoid offending the innocent. I'm sorry if I offended innocent parties.

As a funny side note: My dad is a white collar worker too and so was my mom. They both used to rightly complain about bad behavior of the local "rednecks", but I never heard them say "white trash". My dad would have washed my mouth with soap, if I said "white trash". I guess for their generation "white trash" was to strong a phrase, but "redneck" was acceptable. I don't understand that. Never did.

I can well remember my friend and I after junior school with 30 of the "bad people" after us and trying to catch us. The "bad people's" behavior improved a little in high school, but not much. By high school there'd only be about 10 after us. The rest had grown up a bit. These are the same types who see a person alone and want to go pick on them and gang up on them, even as adults. These are the same types who see a person of a different color, or dressed different, or a handicapped person and then want to go bully them or even attack or rob them. These types of "bad people" exist in the country and the city.

 

[Rigby470]

OK, let's stay on track here. I want to discuss waterproofing your guns and ammo.

I figured ammo would be sealed enough to be reliable. Guns can operate with moisture, but don't let them sit too long without cleaning. Am I right so far?

I've often thought about keeping my handgun inside a ziplock bag. But a ziplock would prevent my ability to quick-draw on amorous hillbillies or other frisky varmints.

 

[_N4Z_]

***

movie was filmed in west virginia, irc. the actual river is in georgia, again irc.


sho got a purdy mouth.... <-- really just wanted an excuse to throw that line in the mix.

 

[helomech]

I live near houma, what part of Louisiana are you from?

 

[wbond]

Get a stainless gun with a stainless barrel.

They come in shiny, polished stainless, satin finish, and matte black. Stainless steel can rust. It's not rust proof. It's rust resistant. i.e. - it takes longer to rust, but can rust with neglect.

I know a lot of people like to keep their gun barrels totally dry because they are worried about oil fouling ammo, which is a valid concern.

However, I live in WA State where it rains 2/3 of the days of the year. So I have to have a more aggressive rust prevent attitude.

Hoppes #9 is a brand, not a product. I recently learned this. I used to think Hoppes was the brand and #9 was the product. NO. The brand is Hoppes #9.

There are many different Hoppes #9 solvents. I use two. I have the classic powder solvent that I use each time I clean the gun. I also have the copper and lead remover, which I use only occasionally (every 10th cleaning or so).

The powder solvent is mostly kerosene and it is also a rust inhibitor. It says right on the bottle to "annoint the bore" after cleaning to prevent rust. That means that after you've got the bore totally clean and run dry patches through it, then run one more patch through it with a bit of the #9 powder solvent on it. This prevents rust by leaving a very light oily kerosene residue in the barrel. It is OK to fire the gun with that very light residue in there.

The residue prevent rust even in regular steel barrel. In a stainless barrel, you are really well protected.

If I know I'm going to the shooting range, then I will run a clean dry patch through the bore to remove the dried on kerosene residue. However, when I carry for SD, I just leave the residue in there for protection from rust. If I have to fire a few mags in SD, the residue will not be a problem because it's much thinner than oil and is just coating the metal.

The reason I wipe out the residue before target shooting is that the barrel might foul within 50 - 75 rounds, if I leave the residue in before firing. If I wipe the barrel bone dry before firing (one dry patch is plenty), then I can shoot 200 rounds before the barrel fouls.

For self defense carry, I leave the residue in for rust protection. If I have to shoot, I know the barrel won't powder foul for at least 50 to 75 rounds, which is more than enough for SD.

There is NO danger of the residue fouling my ammo in a revolver because I only put residue in the barrel, not in the cylinder holes. I keep the cylinder holes dry. This is why I prefer stainless revolvers.

In an auto, there is a theoretical chance of fouling the first round in the chamber, but not the magazine. I'm running an experiment on that right now by leaving an auto handgun chambered for 3 months with the residue in the bore. Then I'll test fire it at the range. I don't see how it can foul the cartridge because the film is so thin in the barrel and chambor.

I can definately recommend the Hoppes #9 powder solvent LIGHT residue in the bore for revolvers for SD carry. I cannot say yet about autos since my test of autos is in progress. I think it will prove fine for autos too.

================================================

P.S. - the Hoppes #9 Copper and Lead remover is another animal entirely. It clearly says on that bottle NOT to leave any in the bore or anywhere else. It says to remove it all. I think it might damage bore if left in there. So after the Copper and Lead remover, which I only use occasionally, I then wipe dry with dry patch, then annoint bore with Hoppes #9 powder solvent.

A stainless revolver with an annointed bore seems the best for really wet conditions to me.

Does this help?

 

[_N4Z_]

oops

Tallulah Gorge State Park, Clayton, GA

I remembered incorrectly. Above is where it was made.

 

[joab]

If the word "redneck" bothers anyone, then substitute the word of your choice.

That's pretty much my point. just trying to stave off the almost certain thread drift over vocabulary.

The movie was filmed in Georgia
The beautifully-photographed film, shot entirely on location (in northern Georgia's Rabun County that is bisected by the Chattooga River),

Ammo and guns are not as water sensitive as people think.

growing up I took many many canoe trips down the Econolocahatchee river.
Dad made many trips through the Glades
He always carried a pistol in a holster.
Going in was not at all a rare occurrence I never saw him take his gun off before jumping in.
I carried a rifle strapped to the thwart.
Never had any issues

 

[wbond]

One other thought from history.

Wild Bill Hickock was one of the greatest pistoleros in history.

According to the history channel, he used to fight a daily battle against moisture in his black powder revolvers.

Every morning he'd clean and reload his guns. That meant he was throwing his ammo away each morning. I guess that's the price he had to pay for reliablity from black powder in wet weather.

If you were on a white water trip lasting many days, why don't you keep most of your ammo in a water proof container, and then each evening, or each morning, throw away the 6 rounds in your revolver and reload from dry ammo you've kept in your water tight container?

I do this every two weeks myself, but I don't throw it away. I shoot it at the range. Same result though. My ammo is never all that old.

That's the last of my water proofing advice. I'm out of ideas.

 

[wbond]

To Casing Point:

Hey we just found a language common denominator. "Low lifes" is also a commonly used term in the Northwest. A more polite term actually. I should have just used that one in the first place.

We also say "scumbags" and "dirtbags" a lot too.

I think the reason "rednecks" offends some people is that it implies that the scumbags are white. However, in this case they are white and so am I. So I didn't think that should be a problem to tell it like it is.

However, I'll stick to low lifes, scum bags, and dirtbags in the future because those don't imply racial origin and won't offend anyone.

Low lifes: Is that politically correct enough for everyone?

 

[shermacman]

There are plenty of good waterproof bags for boating that work perfectly for guns, ammo, cell phones and wallets. I kayak in the winter, power boat in the summer. Part of the camping trip supplies are the fun decisions about which guns to bring. No excuse to be caught without a readily accessible, dry gun. Or phone, or wallet!

 

[joab]

Every morning he'd clean and reload his guns. That meant he was throwing his ammo away each morning. I guess that's the price he had to pay for reliablity from black powder in wet weather.

He actually fired those rounds as target practice. Which is why, some historians say, he was such a good marksman. Daily short session practices as opposed to long arduous less frequent practice making every shot count.

More side tracking.

Redneck is a term that many use to refer to themselves with pride.
To some it describes a self suficient less techniloically dependent lifestyle.
What some would refer to as a country boy.
The term was originally a derogratory term for Presbytarians

I promise that's it.

Modern ammo is not as affected by moisture as BP was.

Think of all the days long battles that have been fought in driving rain

 

[Coltdriver]

Thats interesting that you mention Deliverance, I took a coffee break and caught the part where the two hillbillies take the fellas for a trist in the woods.

I could not help thinking how unrealistic it was as the one fellow was tied to the tree and his giant chrome k bar was pulled from the sheath.

I would of stuck one of those fellows with that kbar before things got out of hand.

I'll take a knife close in to a weapon any day.

Anyway, onto keeping your powder dry I have a stainless revolver, I guess waxing up the rounds would do the trick or maybe using some ammo that is sealed against moisture to begin with.

 

[BigG]

For those who like movie reviews -

Here's my take on Deliverance.

Thanks

 

[_N4Z_]

*

I could not help thinking how unrealistic it was as the one fellow was tied to the tree and his giant chrome k bar was pulled from the sheath.

Unrealistic perhaps for someone like you, but not for the indecisive "city boys" involved in that particular scene.

Never know how any person will a act/react in battle, until they are actually exposed first hand.

 

[MCgunner]

I have several mottos. Revolvers for for the outdoors and stainless is a good thing is one of them. Also, never go to east Texas without being armed and if you don't like hillbillies, stay out of Arkansas.....

Seriously, though, for actual USE, stainless is a good thing. I live by the bay and fish a lot. I always carry my Taurus alloy frame/stainless cylinder revolver when I'm out fishing. I would like an SP101 for that duty, but the Taurus is a lot lighter on the hip. I'm carrying concealed, IWB. When I'm REALLY out in the woods carrying open, it's usually the stainless Blackhawk in .45 colt. It has the power for any four legged critters as well as hillbillies (or drug growers or illegals or whatever it is you're worried about in your neck of the woods). Me, I don't worry about hillbillies in coastal Texas, just ex-cons lookin' for money the easy way. There's lots of not so upstanding citizens in this part of the country. You just never know. And, the .38 comes in handy when I catch a shark bigger than I wanna pick up without a little tranquilizer.

Now, I don't go around dunking my pistol/revolver ammo, but I duck hunt and my shotgun shells go under water a lot in my shell belt when wading in pot holes. They always fire, never had a dud. Sometimes I have to chunk 'em when they sit for a while and get rusty. They'll fail to extract from the gun if they have much rust on the "brass" part. Sure wish they still made Activ in steel shot.

 

[CAS700850]

The Navy Seals, at one point in their history, carried the Smith 66. Stainless revolver for ultimate reliability in a wet envirnment. Most modern ammo is sealed well enough to make waterproofing a non-issue. That said, I've always wondered about taking a bit of clear nail polish and brushing the juncture between bullet and case ass an additional precaution, as the primer is already sealed. I've always thought that a Smith 686/Ruger GP100 are perfect outdoors guns for everything except big predators (bears and such).

Back to the original thread, as a fairly young Boy Scout, I saw Deliverence on cable (uncut) with a few other scouts. Never again did any of us go camping/hiking/canoeing without a good sized knife, and we actually worked with each other to try and learn some knife/counter knife techniques. Yeah, I'm still traumitized to this day. Dueling Banjoes will give me chills to this day.