Just how bad you can get without practice

[Sentryau2]

Took a shot at a deer today after sighting in my rifle, felt like a new hunter heart was racing and I did it.....I jerked the trigger violently and flinched ontop of that.

It stood still for a few moment and then took off running (this shot was at 50 yards) Thought I had hit em and got a sinking feeling in my gut so I grabbed my jacket and tracked the trail for around an hour and a half before coming to a clearing so I pulled out some binoculars and luckily I see all 3 of them down in the clearing walking around (this is around 150yards away I'm up hill and down wind) Needless to say under no circumstance was I about to take another shot, my self confidence is low enough.

My main questions are. What are YOUR personal bad experiences (maybe I wont feel so bad lol)
Two, best way to get rid of a flinch? I'm going to do alot more shooting today after this light drizzle goes away. I picked up another box of 150 and figured id try and shoot about half of it and get rid of the flinch and jerky trigger pull I think both were mostly due to the nervousness of the hunt, something ive never had before, but there is a first time for everything eh?

 

[Agsalaska]

Well,

Coming from someone who never, ever, ever practices, I can tell you that, on the exceptionally rare occassion that I do it makes me a little better. This year I went out and, after sighting in my rifle, put the rest of the box downrange. Then I shot a moving coyote. By the time the 8 point showed up in my sights it felt pretty natural. But years that I do not shoot at all I am still pretty good with it. But I too missed on opening day last year after not shooting all year. Dropped one later where it stood on a more difficult shot.

I think the biggest difference for me is shooting rimfire. I personally do not need to drag my deer rifle out to the range every month to kill a deer in November. But shooting a hundred or so rounds of 22 every month screwing around the ponds definetely helps.

 

[Comrade Mike]

I practice about once a week, so I can't speak to not practicing. I can speak to what practice can do.

Back when I was a kid and ammo was cheap and times were good I spent a LOT of range time with my dad. He was recently retired and had been a firearms instructor for a number of years. We mainly shot stationary paper because we didn't have the facilities for much else.

I regularly practiced a number of stationary drills and learned many many skills. When I finally graduated myself to action shooting, I won my division despite having never fired on the move in my life. I had practiced many skills into muscle memory and when the beeper went off I just did what was natural.

Now because of school I have longer practice dry spells, but I never loose much because of how well the fundamentals were drilled in.

 

[Warp]

Depends what type of shooting you are referring to.

One single shot at 50 yards, from what should be a supported position of some kind, with a rifle is pretty easy so that really shouldn't be an issue IF you, at some point in the past, did legitimately know how to shoot properly and IF your rifle is sighted in (or close enough, it's only 50 yards).

Adrenaline seems to have got the best of you...and I imagine that actually practicing or training could help with that. Especially if you practice/train with something on the line.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

For me personally I have to practice more often with handguns, I tend to get out of practice pretty quickly with them. I have the type of personality that abuses myself if I don't live up to my own ridiculously high standards.

Try some dry fire exercises to get rid of your flinch. Or maybe taking a rimfire out of your safe and plinking away for a few hundred rounds.

Any chance your missed shot was more "buck fever" than getting out of practice?

 

[patmccoy]

The flinch comes from excitement increasing the adrenaline levels. Best way to get rid of it is to get involved with competitive shooting. You get the same high levels when shooting your first perfect target, or new personal best, or being in the chase to win the match. this is one of the things hardest to overcome for many shooters.

Belly breathing before the shot (deep, slow, with slow exhale) also helps lower the pulse and calm you down.

 

[Lex Luthier]

While practice does make some perfect, some are naturally talented and must rarely practice. Anyone can lose their chops due to inactivity, but springing into your awesome zone when duty calls should be the necessary concern and intention.

Meditative visualization exercises, going through all the thoughts and emotions of your favorite technical activity, help a lot.

 

[strambo]

I don't hunt but spend a lot of time in the tactical training field. Sounds like your miss was mental, you no-doubt possess all the raw hand/eye coordination and marksmanship skill to hit an 8" (or smaller) circle at 50 yards. So, if you can hit it every time w/o stress, then the miss was mental and physiological (adrenaline) and shooting paper and getting smaller and smaller groups won't matter.

It's like cops scoring high on a qualification (proving they have the raw marksmanship skills), then getting in a gunfight and missing 90% of their shots. It isn't more practice, but how you practice. Your training/practice has to closely simulate the real event.

A time consuming, yet free example, would be to hunt with an unloaded rifle and dry-fire on a live deer. The opposite, live fire from field positions at realistic 3D deer targets. Or, combination of both with some competitions thrown in. I realize dry-firing on live deer is not practical, just an example of what great training for hunting would be like, similar to a simmunition force on force event in the LE/military side of things. Everything real but the dying...

 

[dagger dog]

My property was overrun by feral cats, I trapped and shot for several years and never killed one with a collar. Finally got some rabbits, and quail again, and I kept a good eye out for strays.

I bought a single shot 22 Hornet and a decent 4X12 power scope, started hand loading for it, and got where I was at one with that rifle, I feel confident with that gun, enough to make the first shot count at any distance the rifle is capable of shooting.

I had been seeing a black and white tom, I say that because of the size 15-18 lbs., stalking an area on my property that is thickly over grown in honeysuckle in other words rabbit habitat.

Watched and glassed him several times but he wasn't in range but finally he slipped up and gave me a 80 yard shot that I just knew would make him use all 9 lives at once.

Put a cartridge up the spout and slipped into a sitting position, set the power to 12, adjusted for parallax, thumbed off the safety, took a deep breath, let out 1/2 ,holding the crosshair on his shoulder, and like always the trigger broke without me knowing.

Held the follow through and watched as he cat hopped sideways, took about three big jumps and landed onto the broken end of a deadfall looking dead at me but now about 20 yards farther away.

He didn't see me, so I opened the bolt, caught the empty and dropped another cartridge in the tray and shoved it up ,locked the bolt, nudged the parallax and started the routine again except the crosshair was on his forehead, trigger broke by itself again, and another miss.

This time he wasn't wasting any time as he broke for the safety of the nearest sink hole.

I haven't had that rifle in year maybe more. Guess I'll spend the next few Saturdays at the range

 

[George Dickel]

Just how bad can you get without practice

Another question to also ask is how good am I actually vs what how good I think I am. Give metalic silhouette shooting a try, rimfire or centerfire, it is a very humbling experience.

 

[klausman]

For me, the issue is confidence. With some range time, especially just before hunting season, I KNOW where my shots will go. Of course, this needs to be done from real shooting positions, not a bench.

 

[Nite Ryder]

Re-read post #10, Mr. Dickel hits the nail on the head. What caused the miss opening day of deer season is something all hunters have suffered from at one time or another. I've done it, we've all done it, and it's called "Buck Fever". I suspect inexperience is what causes the excitement that makes your heart race to the point where you make a bad shot. Once you have killed enough deer you get to the point where another one doesn't make a whole lot of difference, and you can even pass one up if things aren't quite right. A couple years ago I went to our local range every Wednesday morning and practiced with Cowboy Guns for about an hour, shooting steel targets like those we used in matches, with enough practice I got so the sound of the timer going off didn't bother me, and 'muscle memory' took over and made my movements almost automatic. Later, I could tell a big difference when I didn't practice, and it didn't take long to lose speed and coordination, and it wasn't long before I wasn't as good as I once was. Most of us are not as good as we think we are, or wish we were.

 

[Trent]

Practice is cumulative. I recently went 9 months without shooting one of my rifles. Last shot 3/9/2013, loaded more ammo 3/10/2013 then parked the rifle.

Took it out 11/30/2013, to shoot the series of test loads I'd worked up in march.

My average 5-shot group size was .809 MOA, with my best group being 4 groups in, at .210 MOA.

I fired 10 shots of a known ammo first, as I always do for a baseline, and the 10 shot group was 1.1" (same as it was before). (I do this each time so I will know before shooting test loads, if anything has "changed" - on the rifle, scope, etc.)

 

[.455_Hunter]

Cutting-edge, fast, or sharpshooter skills may fade quickly, but serviceable marksmanship fades very slowly. Several of my relatives, with years between shooting sessions, have delivered acceptable "home defense" groupings with the first cylinder/magazine of a handgun.

 

[Warp]

Practice is cumulative. I recently went 9 months without shooting one of my rifles. Last shot 3/9/2013, loaded more ammo 3/10/2013 then parked the rifle.

Took it out 11/30/2013, to shoot the series of test loads I'd worked up in march.

My average 5-shot group size was .809 MOA, with my best group being 4 groups in, at .210 MOA.

I fired 10 shots of a known ammo first, as I always do for a baseline, and the 10 shot group was 1.1" (same as it was before). (I do this each time so I will know before shooting test loads, if anything has "changed" - on the rifle, scope, etc.)

From the bench?

 

[Trent]

From the bench?

Yes. All my load workup is from the bench, with a bipod and a bag supporting the rear.

I also took 3 months off F-Class, and then put down a 196(9x)/200, and a 196(4x)/200, back to back this last Sunday. That was from prone. No practice whatsoever during those three months.

I took 2 months off Highpower and put down an 81% this Sunday as well. That was down a couple points - usually I'm shooting 85%+ on an aggregate. I was fatigued and my standing score sucked (42%). The other positions were still 90%+, so I still took 1st overall. By two whole points! (Usually the margin of my victories is a little wider....)

 

[Trent]

Warp;

To carry on a little further; from what I've noticed the margin of my skill degrades, and noticeably, but only the razor's edge is lost. The fundamentals and skill are still there, but I might cost myself a few points if I'm out of practice.

Handgun is FAR worse. I took a few years off USPSA, and when I came back, I was shooting at the bottom of the grid. Still chipping some rust off. The finer the motor skill, the faster it degrades, and handgun is all about fine motor skill coordination.

With either rifle or handgun, it gets exponentially harder to get to the "next level". E.g. Going from a 2 MOA group to a 1 MOA group can be learned quickly. Going from a 1 MOA to a 0.75 MOA group takes a lot longer, with a lot more practice. Going from a .5 MOA group to a .25 MOA group.. man. That's taken me all of 20 years. At that level of marksmanship it's not just YOU, but the rifle, the ammo, the ability to read conditions, etc.

I could probably stop shooting rifle entirely and still be able to shoot 1MOA groups prone 10 years from now. But it would take me several years to regain the ability to shoot 1/4 MOA groups again (reliably)

 

[Warp]

The finer the motor skill, the faster it degrades

Absolutely.

Same with the tiers of skill, as you say. Each successive level is that much harder to get and quicker to lose. It's like an exponential curve with skill on the X-axis and difficulty to acquire on the Y.

 

[Trent]

Was like that with motorcycle racing too. When I first started, every weekend I was dropping 10 seconds off my lap times. After 3 years, finding 1/10th of a second was hard. And I was still 10 seconds or more off the lap records at most tracks.

Natural ability has a lot to do with it too. I've been working with a couple of kids (mid 20's) this year on rifle marksmanship. One of them is already shooting expert / master level in F-Class (he's getting close to my scores now - if I lay off the coffee the morning of a shoot, I hit high master level level scores). Another is shooting expert in High power consistently. On a *good* day I might hit expert scores but mostly I'm stuck in the sharpshooter range.

Just as with any skill involving physical work, sometimes someone's 80% is my 99%. My son can run a mile in 5 minutes flat. I struggle with a 7:30.

It's fun watching them reach their potential though. Just as it's fun to try to reach mine. Even though finding your potential is a different point for everyone.

Maintaining that razor's edge is hard.

But maintaining a sharp blade that's "good enough"... not so hard.

 

[Hardtarget]

Here is the opposite of what is normal.
I messed up and did not get to the range for practice the weekend before deer opener. In fact I had not shot my rifle in two full years.
I'm sitting and watching a small patch of woods...slightly open edges with thickets surrounding. Just right for a .30-30 with peep sights.
At 7:15 or so I start seeing deer movement and a buck chasing a doe ( or three). About fifty yards out he crosses, left to right, and stops right in front of me and turns to look at me. All I can see are face, neck, and front legs.
my bullet hit mid neck and stopped some where inside( no exit wound).
I have hunted all but seven seasons for forty years. I've NEVER even cocked my rifle to shoot at a deer...but there was no buck fever. I was complete calm...until after the shot!
My sons, my wife, both sisters, and my dad have had "too much fun" over this...but that's O.K. I finally got my deer.

I'm ready to cook!

Mark

 

[twofifty]

getting, losing and regaining the cutting edge

Sentry - if you take the advice and stories related here by others to heart, you
will likely become a proficient hunting marksman.

You've probably noticed there are multiple levels to gaining and losing proficiency - or that cutting edge.

A few years ago I set out to win my club's CF rifle trophy. It took me two years of weekly structured practice with my 22lr, but I made it. Then I eased off the practice and fell to 2nd place after a year. Top-10 after 2 years. So I picked up the pace, returning to structured practice, and won it again.

For me the lesson is that a 'cutting edge' is maintained by regular practice. ymmv.

--------------

dagger dog's story of the missed cat includes that he "held the follow through and watched the cat ...."

dd's is a very good story as it relates how when in his prime he got to be "one with that rifle". Being one with a rifle is where you want to be, because at that point you're not wondering if you'll make the shot - you know you're making the shot. It is very rare -though it does happen- to follow through on a good hold and still miss the target.

Follow through and 'calling the shot' is almost everything.

---------------
My screw up story.

Last year I missed 2 deer offhand at 45 and 50yds http://images.thehighroad.org/smilies/redface.gif Here's why:

- I'm an inexperienced big game hunter, was my first season.
- Had buck fever.
- Borrowed optics (2x) on my rifle, when I was used to seeing the world of paper and steel targets through a 10x and 18x.
- Only 40 practice shots with that rifle, with a somewhat crude trigger compared to my target rifles. Sighted in though.
- Never before seen what a deer looks like through a scope.
- As a result my mind was filled with doubt. I was worried about causing suffering/loss of game.
- Didn't follow through (d'oh).


This year I harvested my 1st buck. Here's how;

- Used a better rifle, better optics, better trigger.
- Practiced a couple hundred rounds with it.
- Spent quality time behind my 22lr.
- Shot my other rifles as well, all spring/summer long on a weekly basis.
- Whenever I saw a deer (of the wrong sex or wrong species) I'd bring the rifle up and look at it through the scope, at various power settings. When the rifle was empty, I'd also dry fire on them. Did this about 20 times, which really cleared up my mind.
- When my WT buck showed, up went the rifle which placed the reticle on his chest. Finger moved to trigger and squeezed off a perfect shot.
- Followed through.
- Buck bounded 30' and fell dead with no movement whatsoever - heart and lung were devastated.


Bottom line: quality practice, being one with the rifle like dagger dog, visualizing over and over, and follow through (again, dd) is how I accomplished my goal.

Sorry for the long post but the subject is close to my heart.

 

[dirtykid]

I drag my Bushmaster out of the closet once a month every summer, just to keep muscle memory fresh for coyote hunting, I got busy trapping one fall and missed a couple months in a row of practice,
So 1-nightafter work in mid-december I throw it in the truck,and head out to call in some song-dogs, I approached this field where I know they travel frequently,usually from south-to north (according to game-cams) I use a hand call to let out a challange bark as I am approaching my stand, and much to my shock I get a chorus of howls in return from the woodline just a few hundred yards away,, I rush to get into position,set my Foxpro out aways from me and start a series of calls.
Sure enough a large male skirting the wood-line appears , and gives me broadside shot at about 70-yards as he intently scans the field trying to locate my caller,
Perfect shot, I breathe ,squeeze and wait for the shot to break, CLICK !!

I forgot to bump the forward assist,and in the cold weather as well as the gun being a little dry , it hung up and didnt close the action when I dropped the handle,

He hears the click,and looks right at me and runs back into the woods.....

 

[Liberty1776]

for me, it's the adrenaline. (sp?) I am generally a dang good shot, even if I haven't shot for a while.... on paper or plinking, that is. I can hit tennis balls offhand with my 7mm Rem Mag.

I can also miss the biggest buck I've ever shot at, at a mere 30 yds...and have.

I also 'members one time when I was bow hunting in OK, heard the buck I was setting up grunt back at me. my heart was hammering so hard my body was rocking and there's no way I could have made THAT shot...

and if I ever lose that thrill, I'll stop hunting...

 

[Akita1]

I'm a big fan of the dry fire test. Your shoulder is more of an enemy than your trigger finger when shooting at live game (as noted above). Have a friend do a blind dry fire test at the range (he loads it - or doesn't- and hands you the rifle). The military smashes the end of your trigger finger (Marines seem the best at it) when you anticipate shots so it's a more "gingerly" squeeze (my Dad's experience not mine but he taught me) so there's no jerking or shoulder pushing after you learn what it feels like. Having said that, my heart still pumps every time I draw down on live game, just like it was the first time (OK, not exactly but it's comparable).

 

[Warp]

I'm a big fan of the dry fire test. Your shoulder is more of an enemy than your trigger finger when shooting at live game (as noted above). Have a friend do a blind dry fire test at the range (he loads it - or doesn't- and hands you the rifle). The military smashes the end of your trigger finger (Marines seem the best at it) when you anticipate shots so it's a more "gingerly" squeeze (my Dad's experience not mine but he taught me) so there's no jerking or shoulder pushing after you learn what it feels like. Having said that, my heart still pumps every time I draw down on live game, just like it was the first time (OK, not exactly but it's comparable).

aka ball and dummy. One of the most beneficial exercises I know of. Possibly the most beneficial. Definitely good advice here.

You can do it to yourself on removable magazine fed firearms. Get snap caps or dummy rounds. Load some into multiple magazines at different positions within the mag. Jumble them up so you don't know when it will be live and when it will be a dummy. Shoot slowly and carefully enough that the gun doesn't move when the hammer falls on a dummy. Call every 'shot'.

Even better to do it for score in front of other people. Maybe with some kind of wager on the line. It's not much pressure, really, but it's a start in the right direction.