Just shot my first 10mm reloads!

[GJgo]

Hey all,

While I'm new to reloading for the 10mm, I'm not new to reloading. So, I thought I'd write a little about what I saw today in case anyone who has more experience reloading the Ten can let me know if I'm in the ballpark.

Gun- Kimber Eclipse Custom II
Brass- Starline
Bullets- Hornady 180gr XTP
Powder- AA9
Primers- Federal GM155M
COAL- 1.260"

The gun is stock, with the exception of the 24lb Wolff recoil and firing pin spring kit, and a Shock Buff. It easily shoots 1-2" groups at ~25 feet off-hand, and I'm by no means an expert 1911 shooter.. I'm really happy with it! I managed to out-shoot my friend's Sig P226 and another friend's HK USP Match today.

Speeds, average over 5 shot groups-
12.5 grain- 1000-1050 fps (to the best of my recollection)
13.0 grain- 1100-1150 fps (to the best of my recollection)
13.5 grain- 1200-1250 fps
14.0 grain- 1200-1250 fps

For comparison:
American Eagle 180 grain FMJ- ~1100 fps
Winchester Silvertip 175 grain- ~1300 fps :\

My initial observation was that not only was the 13.5 grain load the most accurate in my limited testing today, but more powder didn't get any more speed. I considered trying standard primers, but I took some measurements and my charge is pretty much at the point of compression, so I doubt I could fit an extra grain + in there to make up the speed. (I've heard that AA9 doesn't compress.)

Unfortunately, at 1.260" COAL I get a lot of jams (25-50%) when it tries to cycle the next round. The Silvertips do it as well at their ~1.250". The AE FMJ are also around 1.250", but they feed reliably. So, I've worked up some more 13.5 grain loads with the XTPs at 1.250" and 1.240" (the latter were definitely "compressed") to see if they feed smoother. If not, I might have to look for another bullet.

I'm a little jealous of the extra speed the Silvertips are getting! And with less recoil! Does anyone have ideas on how to get a little closer to that load???

P.S.- It was below freezing today..

Something else I thought of- With the factory 18.5lb spring, I'm getting some primer wipe with the AE factory loads & Hornady factory loads. I'm getting a very small amount of it with the Silvertip loads. However, with the 24lb Wolff spring in the gun I'm still getting some wipe with the AE loads and with my handloads, but I stopped getting any with the Silvertip loads. Hmm.

I am considering upgrading the mainspring and / or the firing pin stop to increase the lock time.

 

[Sommerled]

In my Kimber 10mm the cartridge will not feed well through the mag if COL is much over 1.250 with a hollow point like the XTP. For general blasting I use Berry's 155gr RN at 1.260 COL that works great. For carry loads in the 10mm I use 180gr Speer GD HP over 10.8gr of Blue dot with COL of 1.245 for reliability of mag function. Reduce the powder charge if you reduce the COL to stay safe with pressures.

Gotta love the 10!

 

[GJgo]

With the meplat in the GD being so much larger than in the XTP, I had wondered if they weren't going to feed well in a 1911 platform. I guess that with the correct OAL that this is not the case?

 

[waffentomas]

If you are not doing it already, crimping the cartridge will alleviate most, if not all, of the jams.

Tom

 

[GJgo]

I do have a very light crimp, barely enough to dent the copper jacket. Might try more.

 

[GJgo]

Did some more work on the load today. I stayed with the 13.5 AA9 load and varied the COAL. I tried 1.250 and 1.240, and neither improved the issue I'm having with some rounds jamming on the feed. Maybe my gun just doesn't like XTPs. Or, maybe I need a better magazine than the Kimber?

It was cool out today, but above freezing. Regardess, for some reason my FPS at both of those lengths was down in the 1170-1190 range! I thought that was odd. Looking at the numbers, maybe my chronograph was acting up last time out when it was below freezing.

I've ordered the EGW firing pin stop, so I'll do more testing after I get it installed. I've also got some Buffalo Bore 180gr GD coming to see if they will run in my gun.

 

[41 Mag]

Like you my best loads are using the 180gr bullets nad 13.5gr of AA-9. I am shooting one of the IAI Javilina's and with the 7" barrel it gets 1350 with this load. Fortunately I have only had issues with the lighter grain bullets in 135 and 155gr. The heavier loads function flawlessly and I can't remember when I had an issue with a jam that wasn't due to a cleaning issue.

As for a GP bullet I normally use the 180gr Winchesters bought in bulk. They shoot very well and have through the years provided me with great groups and tons of fun. My SD load for this one is also the GD which also work very well but cost more to shoot in bunches.

One issue you might have is the ramp, some fine polishing with a dowel and 220 emory cloth might help out or have a gunsmith do it. It doesn't take much, generally just a little polishing right along the middle.

As for you primers, if they are shooting well for you keep up the good work, I have always used the Win WLP for mine and never had any issues with varied velocities.

In mine both AA-7 and AA-9 have worked the best. I have tried Blue Dot but wasn't wild about the way it metered through my measure.

Good luck with yours, they are a hoot to shoot.

 

[GJgo]

You know, I think it might have something to do with the feed ramp. I noticed that on the feed cycle, when they hang up on the way in it is putting a slight deformation mark on the brass where it is hanging on the ramp edge. I do think it is odd though that while it does it with XTPs and STs, it does not with AE FMJs..

Oh, and the chrony was wonky. 13.5 is 1170-1190 and 14.0 is 1330-1340 in this setup. I backed it all up the other day. Does anyone know if adding the square slide stop will increase pressure?

 

[jcjacobvt]

Speeds, average over 5 shot groups-
12.5 grain- 1000-1050 fps (to the best of my recollection)
13.0 grain- 1100-1150 fps (to the best of my recollection)
13.5 grain- 1200-1250 fps
14.0 grain- 1200-1250 fps

For comparison:
American Eagle 180 grain FMJ- ~1100 fps
Winchester Silvertip 175 grain- ~1300 fps :\

Just a thought, but when I work up a load for a gun, I increase my loads by .1 grains not jumps of .5 grains. If you are putting on paper; how are your group sizes? I found that I got tight groups at three different levels. A light load, medium load and hot load that were very tight groups and groups were larger below between and above the tight group levels. Only after I had my three different light, medium, and hot loads did I set my cronney up for fps readings. I found factory rounds not as tight of groups as my reloads.

 

[GJgo]

Since I don't have a machine rest for pistols I don't get too worked up over their accuracy in that regard. This 1911 can shoot better than I can, off-hand all my XTP loads are going into a 1-2" group at 25' or so. Good enough for me.

I do .5 grain jumps till I get close to max, then move to .2. I suppose everyone has their own way of doing it.

With my rifles OTOH it's a different story..

 

[GJgo]

I received and installed the square bottom firing pin stop. It didn't significantly increase pressures. It did reduce the amount of primer wipe, however it didn't completely go away. It's only maybe a couple thousandths of it though so I'm not really too worried about it anymore. With the 24lb spring in there the gun isn't really appreciably harder to cock.

FWIW, the full house loads are still sending brass into the next zip code.

Also, I radiused my feed ramp and got rid of the 2 machine cut steps in it- it's pretty smooth now leading into the chamber. The XTPs are still hanging up on entry, but the Silvertips are feeding well now. I also tried some Gold Dots today (Buffalo Bore) for the first time and they fed 100% as well. Much to my chagrin I think I just can't run XTPs in this gun. Maybe I'll try them again if I can ever find another magazine brand to try.

It was super windy today so I didn't set up the chrony or the targets- I just shot watching for pressure signs and for any feeding issues..

 

[atblis]

Try some 800X. You can get another 100 fps or so easy.

EDIT: I should add, that while amusing, I wouldn't shoot a steady diet of over the top loads. It really isn't worth it. A 180 at 1250 is plenty.

 

[GJgo]

"and 14.0 is 1330-1340 in this setup"

Whoops, I meant 1230-1240.. Around 1250 is where I'd like to be.

My Sportsman's Warehouse actually has a 5lb jug of 800X, and I keep almost buying it. (It's about the only thing left on the shelf! LOL) Thing is, I load these on a progressive and AA9 just meters so darn well!

 

[jcjacobvt]

My tightest groups with the hot load of 6.1 grains of bullseye and a 170 grain swc hard cast bullet was averaged at 1156 fps, which gives you 504 foot pounds and a power factor of 196.

My medium power loads of 5.2 grains of bullseye and a 170 JHP were only 934 fps, which gives you 336 foot pounds and a power factor of 160.

 

[Krakkon]

I have a Dan Wesson Razorback and it has a hell of a time feeding 180 grain xtps... I have changed coal also with no avail..

 

[GJgo]

I figured something out today on the gun not running XTPs. Looks like I was going the wrong way on the COAL by shortening it. I measured my max magazine length for XTPs at 1.285. If I run my COAL out to around 1.280, the feeding improves substantialy. Plus, I gain some powder capacity should I need it. I checked, and I'm still getting around .150 jump to the lands, so no worries there. I'm going to run some more tests with charge weight and see how it works out.

Spoke with a tech at Kimber yesterday, and he voiced to me his distaste for shock buffs. I did a little more googling of them afterwords, and then tried some stuff for myself at the range today. I couldn't tell a discernable difference in recoil with and without. What I did notice is that with the shock buff, my brass seemed to fly about 5 feet farther. Also, with the shock buff I cannot slingshot the slide. It has been removed.

Something else interesting I tried today. I shot both my XTP handload at 1240 or so FPS and a 180gr Buffalo Bore Gold Dot (1350 FPS?) through a water jug and into a railrod tie behind the jug. The XTP evaporated the jug and buried itself about 2 inches in the railroad tie. I couldn't get it out. The Gold Dot on the other hand made a smaller mess of the jug, shed ALL of its petals, and deposited the remaining 115 graind of projectile just into the surface of the railroad tie, maybe a quarter inch. I dug it out with my knife.

I also went back to the stock 18.5 lb spring today to compare and contrast with my 24. I don't like the 18.5 at all with full house loads, although it's OK with the downloaded factory stuff. I still like the 24 better with those.. I'm debating if I should try a 22 and a 26 lb spring just to see, or if I should leave well enough alone.

 

[GJgo]

I picked up a Chip McCormick Shooting Star 9 rd mag today for the 10. It feeds the XTPs! However, it locks the slide back on the last round.. The Kimber mag is 8 round though, so in the big picture I guess no great loss.

 

[Casefull]

Try 800x powder and you will get the velocity you are looking for. The stuff is fantasic for high velocities in 10, 40sw, and 45 super.