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Justice officials in "Panic Mode" over failed Gun Program

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by usmarine0352_2005, Jun 10, 2011.

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  1. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

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    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-is-expected-to-reveal-depth/?test=latestnews




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  2. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

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    Says they recovered roughly 700 guns at crimes scenes, 250 in the US, the rest in Mexico including five AK47's in Juarez.

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  3. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    http://oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_jcalpro&Itemid=1&extmode=view&extid=292

    Event: 'Operation Fast And Furious: Reckless Decisions, Tragic Outcomes'

    Full Committee Hearing


    Date: Wednesday, June 15, 2011
    Duration: 2 Hours
    Contact Info:
    (202) 225-5074

    Email:
    URL: http://oversight.house.gov

    The Full Committee hearing entitled, "Operation Fast and Furious: Reckless Decisions, Tragic Outcomes" will take place at 9:30am on Wednesday, June 15 in room 2154 RHOB.

    The hearing will be streamed live at http://oversight.house.gov.
     
  4. ATBackPackin

    ATBackPackin Member

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    My initial thoughts, and I truly hope I am wrong, is that the person(s) that were ultimately responsible for this atrocity will not be punished for their actions.

    Shawn
     
  5. ATBackPackin

    ATBackPackin Member

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    Thanks for the info Bubbles. Short of the world coming to an end, I will most definitely be tuning into that.

    Shawn
     
  6. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    How does flooding the Mexican drug cartel with "assault" weapons matter if guns don't cause crime. I seriously doubt if the cartels have one source for firearms. Without these guns the cartels would most likely resemble the girl scouts..right? BTW I love the sensationalized title afforded the article by Faux "news".
     
  7. smalls

    smalls Member

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    ^ even though they could get them somewhere else, its kinda bad policy that the BATFE would be giving them the guns. They're certainly not giving me automatic guns, either.
     
  8. CTPhil

    CTPhil Member

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    How about: "The hearing is billed as "Reckless Decisions, Tragic Outcomes,"

    I thought a hearing was to get facts, not to support a predetermined position. This thing is a farce right from the beginning.
     
  9. Unistat

    Unistat Member

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    Seriously? You don't see a problem with the ATF encouraging illegal gun sales that they have no way of tracking or preventing being used in a crime?

    You can say what you will about Fox, but I haven't seen any other media reporting on this story.

    Add that to how every news agency jumped on the whole "we supply 90% of illegal guns to Mexico, we need more gun control" garbage and I'd say that Fox is at least following a story through to the end.

    Rest in peace, Agent Terry.
     
  10. EmbarkChief

    EmbarkChief Member

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    So true. The article did state that the ATF planted GPS devices in the stocks so they could track them. This may fall under the "great idea, bad execution" clause.
     
  11. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    As y'all watch this deal unfold you might want to keep in mind what I learned in 22 years in law enforcement.... Just like things in a courtroom - if any justice occurs, it will be purely incidental to everything else going on.

    Every witness, with rare exception will have something they're trying to accomplish with their "testimony"... some will lie like troopers, a few will actually tell the truth, every one of them with an objective.... "it wasn't my decision (or fault)", "government over-reaches", "government does too little", etc. Trying to figure out the players without a scorecard will be really tough, but usually entertaining.

    In many ways the entire process will resemble a kangaroo court with very pre-determined outcomes by one side or another. Glad I won't be involved in it. The best any of us can hope for is to get a clear look at exactly how the deal came about and maybe, just maybe, the folks responsible will find other employment.
     
  12. Hocka Louis

    Hocka Louis Member

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    To the anti-gun, anti-citizen ownership of guns, guy who mocks that guns don't kill people, people kill people... The Feds were giving them TO THE PEOPLE WHO TORTURE AND KILL PEOPLE! And Faux News is almost one of the only one's reporting this significant national and international story.

    As to what will come out of a hearing... Could result in our government just appologizing for getting a US officer and scores or hundreds or thousands of Mexican citizens killed, or it could uncover a conspiracy that goes all the wa up to the White House that has to be prosecuted in January 2013.

    Remember, the Left wants to ban guns and the Mexican drug cartels being supplied by us is just a recent sham. We went from 90% of the guns to now 70% of the guns coming from us. Funny, that is 70% of the 1/6th of the guns conficated over two years turned over to us for inspection. So, it is 12% as far as we can tell. And I'm even suspicious of that!
     
  13. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    So then similarly, If I INTENTIONALLY facilitate the arming of criminal gangs in Mexico, leading to the death of an American LEO, I shouldn't be prosecuted, RIGHT?

    The BATFE has been PROFOUNDLY corrupt from the day of its founding and has remained so to this second.
     
  14. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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  15. Searcher4851

    Searcher4851 Member

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    Hmmmmm, you really think that a government agency that was specifically put in place to help the politicos circumvent part of the Constitution could be corrupt? I wonder what might have caused that.
     
  16. Heretic

    Heretic Member

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    This whole thing was to pump up numbers for propaganda. Most of the guns in use by the cartels are stolen from the Mexican military, carried out by deserting soldiers, who then go to work for the cartels. I think a large number of the US weapons come through the state dept., sold to the Mex gov.
     
  17. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    BATFE ought to have been abolished after the Waco fiasco.
     
  18. Steve 48

    Steve 48 Member

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    I agree!!! The BATF can't do anything right.
     
  19. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    The problem is, they don't want to do anything right. They want to do everything wrong. They're out of control and have been for their entire existance.
     
  20. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    At best this situation indicates that the powers that be at BATFE have incredibly poor judgment and decision making skills and must have somehow sat out any moment of education that touched on that whole "do the ends really justify the means?" topic.

    But as was noted up thread, these hearing will just be an exercise in political theater where no one will ultimately really be held accountable for their actions and the family of the slain border patrol agent (to say nothing of the Mexican nationals who've been victimized with those weapons) will not get anything resembling justice. I doubt they even get an honest apology.
     
  21. ErikO

    ErikO Member

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    And if anyone does 'fall on their sword' they'll be the first in line for a Presidential pardon. That is how this penny-opera story always goes.

    Would it be too much to ask that it was Eric Holder? LOL
     
  22. withdrawn34

    withdrawn34 Member.

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    They've very much so in control. This is exactly what they wanted to happen. This way, they could blame law abiding gun owners and law abiding dealers, which has always been their singular objective.

    They're only embarrassed because someone finally has the evidence to call them out on it. That wasn't part of their plan.

    I hope any new agents thinking about joining the BATFE take a long, hard look at this and wonder whether being murdered by your bosses for political reasons is really worth a job or not.
     
  23. M1key

    M1key Member

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    Mexicans are getting guns from U.S. border towns

    COLUMBUS, N.M. -- The sheriff for Luna County is requesting that the entire Columbus Police Department step down until the federal investigation involving city leaders in a firearms trafficking ring is over.

    Sheriff Raymond Cobos asked the remaining trustees in Columbus to vote on having the police department step down.

    City leaders in the southern New Mexico village of Columbus were arrested Thursday in a federal raid investigation that involved smuggling firearms from the United States to Mexico, Luna County sheriff officials confirmed.

    “I'm dismayed, I'm disheartened, certainly disillusioned,” said Cobos. “I think violation of the public's trust is something that I categorize as a pretty heinous crime.”

    Mayor Eddie Espinoza, Police Chief Angelo Vega and city Rep. Jose Blas Gutierrez were arrested on allegations of firearm violations, stated the indictment that was released Thursday afternoon by the U.S. attorney's office in New Mexico. Espinoza was charged with one count of conspiracy, three counts of making false statements in connection with acquisition of firearms and three counts of firearms smuggling. Vega was charged with one count of conspiracy. Gutierrez was charged with one count of conspiracy, seventeen counts of making false statements in connection with acquisition of firearms and 19 counts of firearms smuggling.

    In all, 10 people were arrested when law enforcement authorities executed a search warrant at their homes, one place of business and the office of the Columbus Police Department. Ian Garland, 50, of Chaparral, N.M.; Alberto Rivera, 40, of Columbus, N.M.; Miguel Carrillo, 30, of Columbus, N.M.; Ricardo Gutierrez, 25, of Columbus, N.M.; Manuel Ortega, 25, of Palomas, Mexico; Vicente Carreon, 26, of Columbus, N.M.; and Eva Lucie Gutierrez, 21, of Las Cruces were arrested.

    http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/27148177/detail.html


    M
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2011
  24. JR47

    JR47 Member

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    The BATF, and now the BATFE was originally supposed to provide expertise on the subjects that it was named after. This combined several several smaller groups into one agency. Since they are a government agency, their mission statement is subject to change every election. Maybe not in so many words, but in actions. The leadership is chosen by the victorious party, and sets the agenda. Problem is, the bureaucrats are left in place year after year. Over time, they actually run the agency. It's them that have to go. Abolishing the agency would simply move it's responsibilities to the Secret Service, FBI, or back into smaller groups in Treasury. How, exactly, does that help?

    Lose those responsible for the waste, fraud, and political maneuvering inside the agency, then see what needs to be done.
     
  25. pharmer

    pharmer Member

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    "Abolishing the agency would simply move it's responsibilities to the Secret Service, FBI, or back into smaller groups in Treasury. How, exactly, does that help?"

    In the hiring "food chain", top 10% go to SS, next 10% to FBI, next 10% ICE/BP, next 10% ATF. Thats why other FEDS call ATF "All The.......". Joe
     
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