Juvenile Felonies

[Rob G]

I have a good friend that I work with who is interested in acquiring a gun for HD but isn't sure that he's eligible. He has a non-violent, non drug related felony from when he was a juvenile. I don't know the exact charge here in TX but basically he passed some forged documents. I think they were checks but I forgot to ask while we were discussing it.

My question is, where would he go to find out how this effects him short of actually trying to purchase a gun and seeing how it works out. I'm sure a lawyer might be able to help him but money is an issue in this case so I'm hoping there might be some other option. I'd appreciate any information that you all could provide.

 

[bikemutt]

My question is, where would he go to find out how this effects him short of actually trying to purchase a gun and seeing how it works out.

I would discourage this approach. If he knows he has a felony on his record for which he could have been jailed for greater than a year, regardless of how much time he actually served, answering No to that question on form 4473 could be construed as lying which in itself can lead to further problems, assuming of course the transfer is denied.

Most states have some public-facing system whereby he can pull his own record for a nominal fee, usually around $10. https://records.txdps.state.tx.us/DpsWebsite/index.aspx

He can also request a copy of his FBI record for a nominal fee of $18 plus cost of getting fingerprinted. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/cgbrochure

Finally, he may be eligible to have his juvenile record sealed and his right to possess firearms restored. Unless he is a particularly gifted pre-law student, it's probably best to seek the assistance of an attorney versed in these matters, but that will cost him some. Many lawyers will offer a free consultation so he would at least discover IF it can be done, and how much it will cost.

 

[vaherder]

Questions

How old was he when arrested and convicted? Date of the arrest?

Was he tried in juvenile court or as adult?

What was he actually convicted of or whatever the legalese is in TX juvenile court?

He needs to get copies of his record and a copy of his FBI arrest record. Then he can proceed. Chances are the FBI arrest record was never updated.
There might not be an FBI arrest record.

Why spend the money on lawyers if you dont need to! No reason to pay an ambulance chaser to seal his juvenile record if he doesnt have to.

He needs to get his info and then make an informed decision. No reason for a lawyer at this point.

 

[mortablunt]

If he was tried and convicted as a Juvenile, then that means that the records are sealed.

 

[drsfmd]

Time to hire an attorney...

 

[hermannr]

You might want to start by looking at TX code yourself.

Here in WA, if tried as a juvenile for a non-violent crime your record is automatically sealed when you turn 18 and (if) you have not gotten into any more trouble with the law. TX may have a similar provision. WA also has the forms and instructions to vacate a felony or involuntary commitmint on the superior court web page.

Some of these things, in some states, are relatively easy to fix yourself, like here in WA. Some states are different. If he has the money, and can find a lawyer that wishes to help him, using a lawyer is the easiest on him, time wise.

 

[NOLAEMT]

The 4473 asks if you have ever been convicted of a crime punishable by more than 1 year in prison. It doesn't specify an age for that. It seems to me that your friend is a prohibited person and cannot purchase a firearm.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Some of these things, in some states, are relatively easy to fix yourself, like here in WA. Some states are different.

hermannr has nailed it. The law varies a great deal from state to state, and may even vary within states.

 

[Steel Talon]

In AZ you need to be an adult to purchase a firearm ie. 18 for long guns 21 for hand guns. If you had a juvinile record that was not tried as an adult or carried over. You should be good to go. Because your records are sealed.

I say he should attempt a purchase, that will be the quickest way to find out. If it comes back a a no sale then he needs to take action to see if he can fix it. If it comes back as needs to wait ,he still has a chance of being aproved. Or it can come back as good to go.

 

[Jeff H]

I'm not sure if the FBI can look into sealed records or not, but they certainly can't look at expunged records. In Ohio an adult can have his juvenile record expunged after some period of time. You should look into whether Texas has this provision. I would be wary of trying to buy a firearm with a criminal history that was just sealed, because it is still technically there and it is only permanently erased if it is expunged.

 

[jay21]

Juveniles are not "convicted", they are "adjudicated" unless transferred to adult court. He should know if he was transferred or not.

 

[Rob G]

I'd like to thank everyone for their replies on what is definitely a complicated issue. It looks like I'll need to talk to my friend next time we work together to find out exactly what happened in his case. A few things I saw that I'd like to comment on.

Most states have some public-facing system whereby he can pull his own record for a nominal fee, usually around $10. https://records.txdps.state.tx.us/DpsWebsite/index.aspx

He can also request a copy of his FBI record for a nominal fee of $18 plus cost of getting fingerprinted. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nic...ion/cgbrochure

I appreciate these links bikemutt. We'll definitely start there I think.

How old was he when arrested and convicted? Date of the arrest?

Not 100% sure, he just said he was under 18.

Was he tried in juvenile court or as adult?

Juvenile.

What was he actually convicted of or whatever the legalese is in TX juvenile court?

Yes, he was on probation for a while.

The 4473 asks if you have ever been convicted of a crime punishable by more than 1 year in prison.

There are a few exceptions. I'm hoping he might fit in to one of these.

I'm not sure if the FBI can look into sealed records or not, but they certainly can't look at expunged records. In Ohio an adult can have his juvenile record expunged after some period of time. You should look into whether Texas has this provision.

Texas does and I looked in to it but it's clearly lawyer territory. If he has to he'll pay the money and hire one. Right now I'm just trying to help him figure out if there's a way to check on eligibitilty without dropping a $400 retainer. Expungment does look like a good back up plan though.

Juveniles are not "convicted", they are "adjudicated" unless transferred to adult court. He should know if he was transferred or not.

Definitely stayed in the juvenile court. Not sure if the federal government would care about the difference between "convicted" and "adjudicated" on a form 4473 though. Still that's an interesting point and I'll look in to it.

 

[medalguy]

In Texas, a juvenile is not convicted of a specific crime. He/she is convicted of engaging in delinquent behavior. There's a difference. I would see an attorney familiar with juvenile law in Texas.

 

[dprice3844444]

or contact the states attorney general for a written ruling

 

[medalguy]

Rob, the whole purpose of juvenile courts is to allow the courts to adjudicate young offenders and try to rehabilitate them in a manner that does not leave them with a criminal record and prevent things like being able to get a good job years later, and of course, possess firearms. As I stated, juveniles in Texas are not found guilty of any specific crime. They are found, upon conviction, of having engaged in delinquent behavior. There is no criminal record created that follows them beyond the age of 18, and the entire juvenile record is sealed with a few very specific exceptions.

If what you described is actually what your friend went through, then he has no criminal record with the State of Texas, and neither the FBI nor anyone else will have any record of his trial and eventual fate. In fact, in juvenile courts in Texas, the defendants are told that they will have no criminal record, and that they will be able to obtain employment later in life with no stigma attached to them.

He should be able to purchase and possess a firearm if this is the only legal problem he has experienced.

 

[Ron James]

In Arizona, juvie records are no longer sealed, law enforcement now have accesss to them.

 

[Steel Talon]

ARS 8-349 Destruction of juvenile records; electronic research records

explains it for Arizona

 

[medalguy]

OP was asking specifically about Texas.

 

[BSA1]

As commented on juvenile law varies greatly from state to state. The only suggestion I would made is there a Legal Aid Society in your area? If so they may be able to help him and save him some money.

Another option would to to contact the State Bar Association and see if they have any attorneys that would handled his case "pro bono".

If it was me I would check on this anyway since a conviction could prevent a security clearance down the road for a job.

 

[vaherder]

Security Clearance

A conviction does not by itself ever prevent you from getting a security clearance in DOD. A conviction may cause your job application not be considered by Federal law enforcement agencies but a conviction all by itself will never result in the denial of a security clearance. Other factors come into play like how long ago, the sentence, what you actually did, how old you were at the time and so on. Since often you are convicted of a lesser charge the original charge you were arrested for is often more important ie arrested for DWI but pleading guilty to Reckless Driving. The most important factor is how recent the issue is. If the juvenile arrest happened five years ago its not going to matter. Now if the friend was arrested 9mos ago when he was 17yo and he now enlisting it may not matter by the time he completes basic and goes to his A school as long as this is the only blemish.

The friend needs to get a copy of his FBI arrest record and his TX state arrest record.