Expunged?

Status
Not open for further replies.
mljdeckard

mljdeckard

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
13,319
Location
In a part of Utah that resembles Tattooine.
This is kind of a multi-part question.

I have a bro-in-law in his mid-late 30s, who was convicted of a felony when he was 18. (I think it was B&E, burglary, Criminal trespass, something of this nature.) He had this expunged, when he was about 30. Ever since I've known him, he's been nudging me to sell him a gun. I think to myself, "Ok, it's expunged, but at the same time, if I'm not mistaken, on the BATFE paperwork, it asks 'even if expunged'." He tells me, "If it's been expunged, the court has sealed it, and it can only be viewed again per court order." I tell him, if he's sure, go to a dealer and buy one. I figure this will answer my question, if a dealer will dell him a gun with a background check, I should be ok to do it too.

So I guess I'm wondering, even if a felony is expunged, does it still show up on a federal check, can he buy a gun, and can he get a Utah CCW, with their comprehensive check, which says, "We will check juvenile and expunged records."?
 
As far as I know it does. I had a gf whose dad was an expunged felon (poss. of controlled substance) and he was arrested for possession of a firearm. When they figured out that he had been expunged they dropped the charges.
 
If the court ordered it closed, it is not available as I understand it for a juv. If it is still observable but not usable to deny I would think it might be a state by state thing...

Expunged is something a legal gov't official will have to tell you, I am thinking.

You should always go through a dealer to protect yourself..."Never" sell a firearm, to someone, without a DROS, in my opinion...:what:CA law is the one I feel is correct about it for me and for others...You may own other kinds of firearms that I can not but the law of CA is a good one to stand by for your own sake...Self Defense is the key...

:scrutiny:
 
From the BATFE website on Form 4473:

12c. A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) restored AND (2)the person is not prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms.
Click to expand...
 
Take him and the gun down to the closest FFL dealer you know and have them do the transfer. If it goes through, you are cleared of any and all complicity in the sale of the weapon. Most will do this for 15-20 bucks. I do them for 10 for folks I know. It's worth the peace of mind.
 
have him go to the doj website. i believe there is a form he can fill out and send in to see if he can buy a firearm. to me i bet either 1 of a couple of things. 1. he never got it expunged. 2 he did but is still afraid to get rejected if he goes to buy one.

So if thats the case he can fill out a form. send it in. i believe there is a small charge then he will know either way.

a few years ago i had a neighbor he always talked about buying a gun. he was given a shotgun for his birthday a very very old shot gun without any numbers. He said he had the gun for a long time. however he had a past with drugs somewhere around when he was 16-18. not too sure of age. he said it was clear. always said he could buy a gun. but you could tell he wasnt too sure. then he said he was going to buy a gun for his wife first before he got one. that kinda threw me off. same time he always wanted to know if i wanted to sell him one. Well i posted here and on another form. i got the same results. I printed up the paperwork and went over and talked to the guy. Told him what to do and gave him the paperwork. Well about 4 months later they moved and i have not talked to him in a while. but thats all you can really do. Dont do anything that can infrnge on your rights to own a gun. but help educate those who think they cant
 
Ok, if we/he tries this, and he comes back as rejected, is anyone guilty of trying to falsify the request?
Click to expand...
As Tonto said to the Lone Ranger in that old joke, "What you mean 'we,' white man?" HE is the one filling out a 4473, HE is the one with the prior conviction, HE is the one who wants to buy a gun. If you do the transfer through an FFL, as suggested, HE fills out the paperwork. It's up to him to fill it out honestly, that isn't your job and it isn't your problem. If he lies on the form, I believe he will have just committed another felony, and this one will be a Federal felony. If so, it's HIS felony, not yours.

Just don't do anything that makes you anything other than a seller, using an FFL to make the transfer squeaky clean. Don't do anything that might somehow be construed as a straw purchase. The whole point of using an FFL is for you to protect yourself and keep yourself at arms length from the buyer.
 
I am a little ignorant on this subject, but I seem to recall that there was some sort of letter that could be obtained here in Colorado from the CBI that one brought with them if there was some sort of issue that had been cleared up, thus giving the CBI a heads up that a flag was going to pop up and that it could be bypassed.

Sorry I don't know more about this, but does this ring a bell with anyone?
 
Ok, if we/he tries this, and he comes back as rejected, is anyone guilty of trying to falsify the request?
__________________
"DLIFLC Monterey, California. We learn the languages of your enemies so that you don't have to."
Click to expand...

i would not try it out at a gun shop until you find out for sure. like i mentioned look on the doj website. heck with it. took me about 20 minutes but here it is. this is for a CA resident look it up for you local state if not ca. From what i see he needs to fill this out have it notorized and send it in with a check for 20.00 then they will send him a reply in mail if he is ok to purchase a gun.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf
 
I had my record expunged 5 years ago,no felonys but enough to keep me from passing a backround check. A good friend of mine and owner of a LGS told me to wait about 6 months after the final judgement because the ckeck would show some activity rhat might hold me up. As far as filling out the backround check you answer all the questions as if you were never arrested. On my copy of the final judgement it states that these arrests and convictions are deemed to never have happened and letters were sent to all police and state police to remove all records of any arrests. According to my lawer and the judge its as if none of this ever happened. Its kind of cool actually, its as if my past just went poof into thin air.
 
On my copy of the final judgement it states that these arrests and convictions are deemed to never have happened and letters were sent to all police and state police to remove all records of any arrests. According to my lawer and the judge its as if none of this ever happened. Its kind of cool actually, its as if my past just went poof into thin air.
Click to expand...
They did it right in your case, then. That is, after all, what "expunge" means. It means to wipe out, remove, or erase. It is different from a pardon.
 
It all depends on state law. If the state views it as a dismissal of charges then the federal government does too. In some states, there is a difference between "expunge" and an order not to disclose. Expungement and nondisclosure are usually the final step of a deferred adjudication, or when a sentence is set aside after a probation is served. It is not a conviction, but usually still shows up on background checks as an arrest and dismissal.

Expunge usually means you showed after the fact that you were not guilty or had a good lawyer and record of the arrest was completely erased for government and civilian eyes alike. An order not to disclose means that your prior arrest/probation will not be released to anyone but a government agency.
 
I see a lot of people suggeting you "try out NICS" to see if it will "work."

If only there were some sort of individual whose job it was to know about the law, an "officer of the court" of sorts, who could help you with such a situation, and determine beforehand if your brother's issue causes him to be prohibited or not.
 
First he needs to check with the state to make sure it is really expunged, and he should also get a certified cc of the file.

Secondly he needs to make sure expunged means expunged

You cannot do either of these things since you don't know the facts. Therfore you can never really be sure, so I would strongly advise you run it through an FFL. It is beholden on HIM to make sure he can legally purchase it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

X
  • Locked
Getting FOID with felony expungement?
Replies
14
Views
2K
XxWINxX94
X
H
  • Locked
Adjudicated Delinquent
2 3
Replies
60
Views
3K
hso
hso
T
  • Locked
Need help with a gun law
Replies
22
Views
832
Aguila Blanca
A
H
  • Locked
CCL question about a Juvenile record
Replies
1
Views
324
Black Knight
B
M
  • Locked
Denied 2 times by NICS
Replies
3
Views
1K
Frank Ettin
Frank Ettin
Back
Top