K-Frame Endurance Question

[Weylan]

Years ago the conventional wisdom was that a S&W K-frame, such as a model 66, could not stand up to the pounding of a steady diet of full power .357's (hence, the introduction of the L-frame).

Then they started building .357's on the J-frame. So, is it still the case that a K-frame .357 should be viewed as unable to take continual full power loads, or has the conventional wisdom changed? Thanks.

 

[Blueduck]

Good question, especially since the factory 357 magnum ammo has been downloaded a bit since the 70-80's when we were hearing a lot about the hottest 125 grain loads cracking forcing cones. Better steel+lower pressure ammo should substantionally help the situation which has IMHO been a bit overblown to begin with.

As far as just pure wear as opposed to the cracked cones I'm not a smith by any stretch, but a firm beliver that a lot of guns were shot when they should not have been. Fixing excessive endshake is not a big deal, but if you continue to fire the gun when it needs work it's gonna go downhill fast

 

[Jim March]

There's some merit to that. But...there's still some very hot 125grain fodder available, and I wouldn't shoot a steady diet of 'em through a K-class OR J-class.

(Note: "K-class" includes some Taurus models, the Ruger Security/Service Six series, etc.)

Maybe another question is this: have the 158grain 357s gotten better? The various Gold Dot-based loads running 1,200 - 1,275fps are getting very good reviews. I'm not sure they'd go fast enough out of a 2" and they'd be hell out of a lightweight snubby, but in a 4" K-Frame they'd perform well and actually beat the gun up LESS than a 125 @1,450.

 

[labgrade]

I duuno.

No 'smith here either, but we''ve shot 10Ks++ of 168 gr hand-cast bullets at ~1150-1200 fps through our 66/19s with nary a sign of any wear whatsoever.

Still plenty accurate with these & still tack-drivers with 148 HBWCs.

Have a "standard" of 125 JHPs available for "defense," but cannot imagine that one of those 168s wouldn't put a real dent in a BG's day.

Beat anything up & they'll get beat up. Kinda like your own body, huh? ("wisdom" from someone who has beat the latter .... )

 

[Jim March]

Yea, a 168 hardcast at around 1,200fps (from a 4"?) should be no harsher than a 158JHP at the same speed or a hair faster. If anything, the hardcast should be mellower on the forcing cone than the jacketed.

Mind you, I'd rather have a JHP, esp. given the reliability of expansion that the Gold Dots have been posting.

 

[tech]

Hey Jim, I thought the security six was strong enough for a regular diet of full house .357's. If its not I had better start shooting my 586 instead.

Mike

 

[HSMITH]

No different than a wrench, when you use it and use it and the flats start to round out you put it in the spare box and get another one. Guns are tools, nothing more. The K frame will take a lot of pounding, many thousands more than 99% of shooters will put them through for sure. There are a few guys out there that shoot full power for everything, if they shoot a lot they have a chance of using one up. I would guess it is in the 60K+ round range for factory full power ammo before problems start, and S&W can put it back together at least once for you.

I have seen and shot a M13 that the top strap is cut a FULL 1/8th of an inch deep, think about that. The forcing cone is eroded badly too. It was loose as a goose, but oh so silky smooth and still shot fine with jacketed bullets (lead would shave a little once in a while). That guy had made it his lifes work to learn that gun, he did that. He estimated 200K rounds, but as stories go it certainly had over 100K through it and 90% were full load magnums.

Much worry about naught IMO.

 

[Jim March]

Tech/Mike: the Security/Service series are a BIT stronger than a K, but not quite as strong as an L and definately not as strong as a GP100.

A steady diet of very hot 125s will slowly beat up a Security/Service series. You'll actually do better with the newest 158s as stated.

The guy HSmith talked about may indeed be a good shot with that thing, but shooting it while loose is just nuts. It can be tightened up, the forcing cone re-cut, the barrel screwed back a turn or two, etc and it'll be good for quite a while more. Shoot it in that state, and it's going to come completely apart or (more likely) stretch the frame beyond all hope.