Sound off if you haven't destroyed your K frame with magnum loads...

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dodging230grainers

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I realize K frames don't respond nicely to .357 magnum loads less than 158 grains, but can anyone confirm that a reasonably steady diet of heavy .357 mag loads won't quickly wear down a K frame, specifically a Model 19/66?

thanks.
 
I wore out a 2 1/2" 66 with about 300 rounds of remington 125 gr jhp. S & W replaced the bbl, cylinder and some other minor parts. That was about 20 years ago. They would laugh now if you sent one in. It was out of time and the f/c was cracked.
 
It's Not That Simple

I realize K frames don't respond nicely to .357 magnum loads less than 158 grains, but can anyone confirm that a reasonably steady diet of heavy .357 mag loads won't quickly wear down a K frame, specifically a Model 19/66?
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The issues with K-frame S&W revolvers and Magnum loads was with the original 125 gr. offerings, which were originally specced around 1,450 fps out of four-inch barrels. There are other Magnum offerings with bullets that weigh less than 158 gr. which are not as "hot" or punishing to gun and shooter. A few that come to mind include the 110 gr. loads from the major manufacturers, the 145 gr. Winchester Silvertip and the "mid-range" Remington 125 gr. Golden Saber.

I have put at least several hundred handloaded 110 gr. Magnum (loaded to replicate the Federal 110 gr. offering) loads through one of my M-66's, with no apparent problems. I have put well over a thousand of the same load (along with several hundred of the commercial version) through each of a pair of extended-J-frame 640-1's with no apparent ill effects either.
 
I wore out a 2 1/2" 66 with about 300 rounds of remington 125 gr jhp. S & W replaced the bbl, cylinder and some other minor parts. That was about 20 years ago. They would laugh now if you sent one in. It was out of time and the f/c was cracked.
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351 Are you sure S&W would not fix it? I have a pristine model 64-2 handed down to me from my father. My first trip to the range it shot left. I called S&W and they took care of it no questions asked. The guy that took the call was in fact very nice and said don't worry sir we will fix it. 4 weeks later I got it back with what seems to me to be a lighter trigger and now shoots dead on.

I know it is not as old as a m19 but according to the receipt my dad purchased this brand new in Dec of 1977.
 
Last I heard S&W has no more .357 K frame barrels in stock. So go easy on your 19s and 66s.
This 19-4 has had about 200 rounds of Speer 125s through it with no damage but I won't shoot anymore through it. Just 158s from now on.

SWs003-1.jpg
 
Mr. Revolverguy, I've sent so many revolvers back to smith and I think they have me in their data base as a repeat offender. The last gun I sent them was a model 63 which had developed considerable endshake and was missfiring. They charged me $74. to fix it. When the Customs Service went the the model 19 they were issued super vel ammo, which was very hot. A lot of the guns crapped out on the first range session.
 
Hmmmm......would the same issues apply to my 620? I read somewhere that a bunch of them were originally constructed using leftover 66 barrels, even though it's built on an L-frame. And I like shooting my Magnum loads, but if it'll rankle the thing, maybe I'll stop :(
 
FYI, a K frame barrel won't fit in an L frame, Eightball. The OD is different, and I think the thread pitch MAY be, too. It might have been a "66 style" one-piece barrel, but it wouldn't have been a real 66 barrel. If they built them from 66 barrel blanks, and machined the threads from blank, it would still have an L frame barrel diameter and FC area, and be more robust.
 
I have not destroyed a K frame with hot 125 gr. loads. Though I had one develop timing issues sooner than it may have had if I had shot more of another load.

The problem that developed decades back was usually due to improper maintenance. As folks may know, the area of the frame where the barrel threads into the frame is tapped to accept the barrel threads. This leaves only about .030"-.050" of metal in the area of the forceing cone. If lead or copper builds up in this area the next round and every round after produces more pressure in an area that is thin to begin with. This led to cracked forcing cones. This tended to happen more often with 125 gr. loads at about 1300-1400 fps. This is due to the pressures generated by these loads.

The same loads also tended to wear the smaller parts of the actions more rapidly as there was less weight to absorb recoil.

The correction to this was more diligence in cleaning the area of the forcing cone than on other guns.

Alternately just shoot different loads or fewer of the 125 gr. loads at 1300-1400 fps. and pay more attention to the area of the forcing cone.

Awhile back on another forum. Brian Pearce related that he had shot well over 5000 rounds of the old 125 gr. loads through his M19 without any problems. He kept the forcing cone clean and free of lead or copper deposits. At about 7000 rounds (if I remember right) of the same ammo, the gun went out of time. He fixed that and continued.

tipoc
 
The vast majority of K frame 357s never have any problems. We hear about the ones that fail (usually it's a friend of a friend who heard of a guy who had seen one owned by somrbody else) but that number is miniscule compared to total production numbers.

This 19-3 was shipped in 1970 to a federal agency and was likely used with a 110 grain load as I think that was common with the feds at the time. I have owned it since 1990 and I shoot nothing but warm (1500 FPS) 125 grain loads in it.

So far nada as far as damage or excessive wear.
 
My 1970'ish 6" 19 has had nothing except 150 grain Sierra's over 14.5 grains 2400 powder through it for going on 35 years.
(Well, maybe a bunch of .38 Specials too.)

That's not quite a max load, but I ain't broke it yet.

You might also note that SAAMI dropped the .357 from 40,000 to 35,000 pressure several years ago in deference to small frame guns.

Back in the day, .357 factory loads where a whole different animal!

rcmodel
 
My 3" 65 shoots to POA with 158-grain .38 +P SWHPs, so that's what I shoot in her. I figure hitting is more important than missing hard.

John
 
NO.
Cracked barrel forcing cone at the bottom flat cut next to the cylinder gas ring is the big show stopper.

rcmodel
 
RCmodel is correct. Look at the forcing cone as well as the overall condition.

tipoc
 
I bought a '70s vintage nickel M19 for a good price, and put it to use in my CCW classes as one of the range guns for the express purpose of seeing what would happen. (All the .357s I shoot personally are M27s)

This gun gets 50 to 150 rounds of Hornady 140 grain .357 ammo a week, depending on class size, and has for the last 6 months. That's only about 2500 rounds so far, but it's fine.

As someone who has worn out his share of Smiths, I can say that by the time you wear a gun out, you've spent far more than the gun in ammo.

JR
 
Thank you, John Ross

As someone who has worn out his share of Smiths, I can say that by the time you wear a gun out, you've spent far more than the gun in ammo.
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+1

This is a point that needs to be brought up more often. We think our guns are more than mere machines, and frequently have unrealistic expectations. (Well, OK they are more than mere machines, but crimminy! Take good care of it, and if/when it breaks, just FIX IT and quit cryin'.)
 
Although I seldom shoot full power loads nowadays, my 66 has had it's share of.158 gr JHPs and a fair number of the hot 125 gr JHPs through it. My wife loves the 110 gr USA JHPS and has put at least a few thousand of them through it too. It's still tight but I kinda baby it now. Mainly 158gr cast bullet loads a bit hotter than +p .38s:). Most any gun can be torn up but the S&W 19 and 66 are one helluva lot tougher than many would have you believe.:p
 
I Bought My M19 4" 357 In '71. To Date It Is Just Under 50,000 Rounds

UP that precisely made barrel. It is still the fastest 4" 357 I've ever chronographed, it is still as accurate as all gittout, and of the nearly 50M rounds about 25,000 have been 357MAG cartridges, the other 25M have been 38SPL cartridges. Many, MANY of the latter have been 38/44 handloads which are as fast and powerful as many 357MAG loads.
SO WHAT IF THE BARREL FINALLY GETS SHOT OUT !!!.THey make new barrels all the time, and they're cheap and plentyful; [ sorta like wimmen...]
 
Wear? What wear?

I bought a slightly used S&W Model Thirteen, K-frame, beautiful blued, heavy barrel .357 in 1978 or so. I ran at least 500 rounds through it before selling it years later. Probably half were hot 125 grainer .357 loads.

Other than the fire-discoloration rings at the mouths of the cylinder, there was absolutely no sign of wear anywhere.

Yes, I DO regret letting that one go........................elsullo :(
 
I always shot mostly .38s in my 19, but then I did in my Ruger and do in my Taurus and SP101 and did in my Rossi, etc, etc. When I did shoot .357, it was 14.5 grains 2400 behind a gas checked 158 SWC. That's a strong load, but not an abusive load.

The K frame is for carry, not for a lot of heavy loads. I have a Blackhawk for the constant heavy stuff. It can handle the pounding. If you wanna shoot a lot of heavy loads in the gun, don't care the bullet weight, the 686/586, GP100, and N frames are stronger. I love the K frames, but I think of 'em more as a .38 that can fire .357 on occasion. I cracked a forcing cone on a friggin M10! My .38 loads I fire in that gun, even the +P stuff, weren't that heavy. The flat on the bottom of a K frame's forcing cone is a weak spot.
 
This topic seems to "Pop Up" every coupla' years or so...I'll "Borrow" a Post I made on this subject from another Internet Shooting Forum...

I have a 1974 production Model 19, with the four-inch barrel...after about 14K rounds thru it, with 2K or 2500 of them being factory Magnums or equivalent handloads, it went back to Springfield for a retiming and headspace/BC gap correction...after about 10 or 12K MORE firings, with FEWER "Maggies", it needs to be "rebuilt" again...in contrast, I have an early 586 "no dash" that has about 35K rounds thru it, with about ten percent being factory Magnums or equivalent handloads, and it's just now getting some "wear" on it...still "carries up" fine, very little endshake, very little rotational play when "locked up"...but Boy Howdy, does it need a reblue!!!...think S&W would cover THAT under the "Lifetime Warranty???"...naahhh, didn't think so....mikey357

...so..."Destroyed"? No..."Worn Out"...MAYBE...but a "Re-Build", and she'll be "Good As New" for a while longer!!!....mikey357
 
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