K-frame or J-frame for a .22LR S&W?

[Candiru]

I plan on buying a .22 S&W revolver so that I can practice my double-action trigger pull more cheaply than .38 Special affords. The accuracy I can wring out of my only other double-action revolver, a Model 60 in .38 Special, is unsatisfactory to me and I'd like to improve.

I have the option of buying one of S&W's older kit guns, a J-frame with a 4" barrel, or a 4" K-frame of about the same age. Originally, the J-frame seemed more appealing because it would allow duplicating the M60's grip, but lately I've been thinking that a K-frame might be more pleasant for extended shooting, and the larger grip might let me refine trigger technique without fighting the ergonomics of a smaller gun. Also, at some future point I'm going to have larger-framed double-action revolvers, and I'd hate to have developed trigger technique so specific to J-frames that I'd have to relearn things.

What do you think? Would I be better served with a K-frame or a J-frame for improving revolver skill?

 

[loud-mouth shnook]

Well, candiru (interesting screen name BTW. Nasty little parasitic catfish with a penchant for swimming up urethras. YOW!!!)

Anyway, trigger control is trigger control. Regardless of frame size, every size Smith's guts are gonna be very similar, thus the mechanics and feel will be similar also. I have one of each frame size made by S&W, except for the X-frame, and it's no big deal to move from one to another because, for me at least, the feel is so similar. Besides, I'm not much of a shot. (Maybe there IS a difference and I'm just too bad a shot to be able to tell.)

But the mechanics of the human part of the equation are the same, regardless of the weapon in your hand.

I'll also say that I have a Ruger MKII and a 1957 vintage S&W K22 (m17) and I have to apply the same techniques to both.

Get whatever gun turns your crank the hardest. You won't be at a disadvantage with either choice, I think.

(edited to add Whichever gun you get, IIRC, Smith's rimfire revolvers still have frame-mounted firing pins. It's a bad thing to dryfire these guns without snapcaps in the chambers because you can damage your firing pin and /or peen the cylinder. Bad juju for a new gun. Just in case the info is useful to you.

 

[lesjones]

J frame triggers aren't that great. I bought a S&W 63, didn't find it terribly accurate, and sold it off. One day I'd like to get a K or L frame .22.

 

[jad0110]

Both would make fine guns, though I think the K-22 is a little easier to find. Eventually though, you could always have both!

I recently aquired a K-22 / M17-0 and absolutely love it! BTW, the trigger pull on the larger K Frame will probably be smoother and lighter than the J Frame 22/32 kit gun. You are on the right track looking for DA 22 revolver. When I gave my sister her first shooting lesson last weekend (with the K-22, naturally), I stressed to her that trigger control is far more important (and more difficult to achieve) than sight picture. She ended up doing very well.

Everyone here told me that a DA 22 would quickly improve my shooting abilities, and they were right! I've gone from barely being able to hit paper at 25 yards with that K-22 to hitting bowling pin targets at 50s DA fire (no rest) about 30% of the time after only two range sessions!

Have patience and enjoy the hunt!

My K-22:

 

[meef]

What do you think? Would I be better served with a K-frame or a J-frame for improving revolver skill?

Personally, I would think that buying the .22 that most closely replicates the gun you were wanting cheap practice for would give you the best apples-to-apples situation.

I think that's one of the main reasons Smith & Wesson made the J and K Combat Masterpiece .22s in the first place.

 

[Gator]

You will shoot the K frame more accurately than the J, for practice I'd get the K. The J's are good for carrying, but they are not as steady in the hand as the larger guns.

Here's a nice "Pre-18" K-22 I recently picked up:




It's a honey!

 

[dbarale]

I would go with the K-22. 4" or 6" barrel.
Eveverybody should have one, it will improve your skills and you will keep it forever as they are so much fun to shoot. It is also a great gun to have around to introduce new people to shooting.
J frames .22 are nice but the K's offer more posibilities.

 

[XavierBreath]

I, too, would go with a K frame.

I own a couple of Model 17s and a Model 34. The Model 34 is neat, and it's a good shooter. The K frames though, taught me more about trigger control in a DA revolver. Either way, you will have a very enjoyable revolver.

For contrast in the pics, here's my Model 34-1 .22/32 Kit Gun.

 

[orionengnr]

Thanks for the linked write-up, Xavier. That was classic...and classy.

pm sent.

 

[Abner]

Candiru, I think that if you want this .22 to improve your Model 60 shooting, then you have to get the J frame .22. Your grip is going to be different on a K and J frame and the best replication of the M60 will definately be the J frame 22. While you're at it, get the same grips on the .22 as your M60. Shooting .22 out of a stainless revolver shouldn't be tiring at the least as far as recoil goes.
Adam

 

[Onmilo]

Choosing between guns is like choosing which of my kids I prefer.
I couldn't do that so I have both a Model 17 K frame and a Model 317 J frame.

 

[Starter52]

I own both, and the K-frame is the one I prefer to shoot.

 

[MrAcheson]

I'd rather own the K myself. My defense guns are all automatics and the larger K will be a better range gun and generic DA revolver trainer for trigger control work.

But as Abner said, if you want your 22 to be a trainer for your M60, then you really should think about the J frame. Then you actually want to take the crappier ergonomics of the J frame into account.

 

[Robo_Railer]

Whichever gun you get, IIRC, Smith's rimfire revolvers still have frame-mounted firing pins. It's a bad thing to dryfire these guns without snapcaps in the chambers because you can damage your firing pin and /or peen the cylinder.

Well, that's good to know. Somewhere long ago I had picked up the idea that the frame-mounted firing pins weren't subject to the same problems as the hammer-mounted ones, and it was okay to dry-fire them. I haven't done much of it with mine, but now I won't do it at all until I get some snap-caps for it.

After reading this thread, I was looking mine over, and could find everything but the model number. I think it's an 18-1, maybe -2. I know it's just a few ounces heavier than the .38s I carried in the AF. Cheap fun to shoot.

I probably covered the model number with those fat grips it's wearing.

 

[loud-mouth shnook]

Hey, Robo:

Actually, I just remembered that all newer Smiths have frame-mounted firing pins. I'm so used to thinking only about my own, the newest being from '91. Sorry.

As I understand it, the issue is only with the rimfires because the pin hits the cartridge where it's supported by the cylinder underneath, IOW the edge of the rim as opposed to a centerfire, where an empty chargehole would just mean the firing pin hitting dead air. Thus, if the rimfire's chargehole is empty, then the pin is slamming into the cylinder itself.

also, to get the mod. number of your gun, if it's new enough to have one, open your cylinder and look at the exposed inside of the frame, If there's a model number, there's where you'll find it. If there isn't one, then your gun is pre-1957.

 

[Candiru]

I just returned from the gunstore with my new purchase, a K-22 Masterpiece with a 6" barrel. I handled both the kit gun they were selling along with the K-22, and whatever the kit gun was using as a return spring was just plain unpleasant.

The K-22, on the other hand, has an unreal trigger: smooth, short, and light. It's the best trigger I've felt on any revolver. The grips fit my hand perfectly and the entire gun feels smooth, polished and solid.

The downside is that there's some finish wear near the muzzle and on the ejecter rod, and some awful pitting on the bottom of the trigger guard. I'll be able to overlook these, though, if the gun shoots as well as it feels.

Before you even ask, here are some photos. Click for larger versions.









Thank you for all your suggestions and advice. I'll post a range report as soon as I'm able.

 

[wcwhitey]

Nice, lots of cheap, accurate practice in your future. Bill

 

[Robo_Railer]

Actually, I just remembered that all newer Smiths have frame-mounted firing pins. I'm so used to thinking only about my own, the newest being from '91. Sorry.

No prob. Dunno when they started making them frame-mounted, but mine has that.

As I understand it, the issue is only with the rimfires because the pin hits the cartridge where it's supported by the cylinder underneath, IOW the edge of the rim as opposed to a centerfire, where an empty chargehole would just mean the firing pin hitting dead air. Thus, if the rimfire's chargehole is empty, then the pin is slamming into the cylinder itself.

Okay, got it.
This one has the chargeholes slightly "counter-sunk," just about the thickness of a .22 case's rim. Fiddling around with it (I know that trick for cocking an S&W with the cylinder open), it looks like the pin still protrudes enough to hit the cylinder.
I just bought .38, .357, and 12 ga. A-Zoom Snap-Caps from Midway, but I'll probably be getting more for speedloader drills, so I'll invest in some .22s at the same time.

also, to get the mod. number of your gun, if it's new enough to have one, open your cylinder and look at the exposed inside of the frame, If there's a model number, there's where you'll find it. If there isn't one, then your gun is pre-1957.

I didn't think it was that old, but maybe it is, because there's just a 5-digit number on the frame and crane. Also found the same one on the "operator side" of the cylinder as is under the barrel, K1696XX.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[mec]

Best sort of revolver. Even the model 17s that are still made are superb but the k 22s are perfection.

 

[loud-mouth shnook]

Hey again, Robo!

Congrats, man.
According to the new 3rd Edition Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, your K22 was made in 1952. Cool!

 

[Sunray]

It's very difficult to beat a K22 for accuracy in a revolver. However, don't worry about the factory trigger. All new firearms require a trigger job. Due to the frivolous law suits all manufacturers sell their products with poor triggers.
A change of grips will make a J-frame fit your hand, but I'd still go with the K22.

 

[Hobie]

deleted

 

[Robo_Railer]

According to the new 3rd Edition Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, your K22 was made in 1952. Cool!

Thanks, Shnook. I had no idea it was almost as old as I am.
I have a vague recollection of trading a .38 snubbie, can't even remember what model, for the .22 back around 1973 or so. I remember who I got it from, just not much beyond that. That's put a lotta rounds downrange since then, and I plan to put a bunch more through it. (Before I can't remember which end the bullets come out of. )

 

[ArchAngelCD]

VERY nice revolver!! I wish there were nice used stuff around here like that. All I see in all the stores I go into is newer stuff. (except for those 2 Colts I wrote about in another thread)

Way to go, you have a classic there.

 

[shep854]

I have a 4" J34. I got it to go with my J49, but was also able to score a set of Pachmyer grips that give it the same trigger reach and feel as a K-frame. Guess which grips stay on the gun...