Kahr CW380 ----- Again

[Jlr2267]

Just picked up a Black Friday CW380 to give it another try. First one I bought was a POS that never fired more than 3 consecutive rounds, even after a trip back to Kahr. This one, so far, is better, but does not like ball ammo AT ALL:

HSM flat nose 95gr fmj, multiple failures to go into battery, several jams with the bullet nose diving into the feed ramp. 3 to 4 failures per magazine

Fiocchi 90gr round nose fmj was 100% failure, not a single round would chamber

100gr round nose lead reloads, about 1 or 2 per mag would not chamber without thumbing the slide forcefully...most of these reloads were in Fiocchi brass

Winchester PDX1 jhp, 100% success
Corbon 90gr jhp, 100% success
Gold Dolt 90gr jhp 100% success

In total, I fed about 150 rounds thru it, with most of the hp's coming last. I did run a final magazine of ball to confirm that the failures are definitely ammo dependent.

All in all, I guess I'm happy to see that it will consistently run high $ self defense ammo (which is what I bought it for). It is very easy to shoot this pistol accurately, and the snappy recoil is very manageable. I REALLY want to like this gun.

For comparison, I also took a brand new LCP and it ran all the above ammo without a single failure. The LCP is a little snappier, and for me, more difficult to shoot with accuracy (the ergonomics cause me to pull off target when squeezing the trigger). I do, however, have a comfort level with the reliability of the LCP that outweighs its negatives (this is my 2nd LCP also).

Anyway, thought I'd share my results and see if anyone else has had similar. In my opinion, a reliable CW380 would make the ideal pocket pistol.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

The Kahr .380 pistols were highly recommended here and at the LGS/range and my Wife tried a rental pistol, we borrowed 2 different pistols from friends who touted them, and shot another belonging to a Gun Buddy at work who was trying to sell his (he hates it) after trying to get it to run reliably.

My experience mirrors yours - I just can't seem to make them run. Logic tells me that if we wanted it bad enough and tried working up a hand load we could make them run. Unfortunately there are better pistols that are a lot less finicky for me and my Wife.

I wanted to like it...but it doesn't run for us either. I think they are highly variable for some reason. The friends we have that own them swear by them but have only put 100 rounds thru them in 2 years. I wonder why...

VooDoo

 

[AustinTX]

I'm not sure you could name a problem that my P380 hasn't had. Despite my strong objections to the Pico's trigger, I think I'm headed in that direction once Beretta sorts out the teething problems.

 

[Jlr2267]

I'm not sure you could name a problem that my P380 hasn't had. Despite my strong objections to the Pico's trigger, I think I'm headed in that direction once Beretta sorts out the teething problems.

The reviews I've seen on the Pico were not positive. I may try one, eventually, or I may just fall back on the boringly reliable LCP. If I had my druthers, I'd find a way to make the Kahr 100%.

 

[CNobbe]

I'm 2/2 on CW380s Like ours a lot, they're hard to beat for summer carry in the pocket.

I left the slides locked back on them for a day or so before going to the range to attempt to break the recoil springs in a bit. No clue if that helped or not.

 

[stevek]

Just wanted to toss in the recommendation of a Glock 42. I've had numerous brands of .380's, and none come close in shooting comfort and accuracy. Just MHO...

 

[AustinTX]

Just wanted to toss in the recommendation of a Glock 42. I've had numerous brands of .380's, and none come close in shooting comfort and accuracy. Just MHO...

The G42 is bigger than a Kahr PM9. If someone is looking for a P380/Pico/LCP-size pistol, I don't even see it entering the conversation.

 

[kokapelli]

True the G42 is very close to the PM9 size, but it is so much more pleasant to shoot than a PM9 or any of the other 380 pistols with maybe the exception of the P238.

 

[ku4hx]

Just wanted to toss in the recommendation of a Glock 42. I've had numerous brands of .380's, and none come close in shooting comfort and accuracy. Just MHO...

Ditto ... son, wife and I each have one and they are a smidgen bigger. But that's a small price to pay for flawless operation through several hundred rounds each: cast, jacketed and plated.

 

[stevek]

I had previously owned a PM9, and the G42 is exponentially much more comfortable to shoot. So much so, that a trade-off for a slightly larger pistol was one that I thought was well worth it. To each their own...

 

[Gary A]

I may just fall back on the boringly reliable LCP..

That makes so much sense to me and seems so much simpler than fussing and fussing with less reliable pistols. Pick reliability and go on down the road in my book. Boring is good in a defensive pistol, IMO.

 

[Jlr2267]

Some interesting findings today w/regard to the ball ammo feeding problems.

I could not comprehend why jhp's fed 100% while the Fiocchi ball and my hand loaded ball failed miserably (the fact that both problematic types of ammo were in the same brass for the most part should have been a clue, doh). After carefully watching the ball ammo jam, I noticed that every time, the case rim was jammed under the extractor, short of being fully seated...this held the cartridge at a slight angle and therefore the round did not chamber.

I measured the rim thickness of the Fiocchi ball and found it was a full .010" thicker than the other brass...I also noticed the OAL was longer on the Fiocchi ball and on my handloads.

I measured a sample from each ammo type...here's what I found:

Gold dot, .939" OAL, .041 rim thickness

Fiocchi Extrema, 0.939" OAL, .040" Rim thickness (uses Star line nickel plated, 90gr xtp bullet)

Winchester PDX, 0.945" OAL, .045" rim thickness

Corbon, 0.937" OAL, .040" Rim thickness

Fiocchi Ball, 0.965" OAL, .051" rim thickness

So the brass on the Fiocchi ball ammo (GFL headstamp) has a rim as much as .010" thicker than the others, and all the high $ jhp ammo has a much shorter OAL. This explains a lot of the feeding differences.

So now I'm looking for published loads with an xtp bullet...found a few, but so far, nothing shorter than 0.97" OAL which I know will fail (the Fiocchi extrema uses an xtp at 0.939" OAL, but I've not found a published load this short).

Seems the geometry of the ramp/extractor on this pistol is not robust to ammo variation...as long as I can find a good SD load that runs 100%, I'll live with it.

The pic shows the "GFL" headstamped brass used by Fiocchi for their ball ammo on the left (the xtp shown in it is a reload). Note how much thicker the case rim is compared to the Star line brass on the right.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Super thanks for the details on the various ammunition and feeding of the CW380. I think it's a fine pistol if one can take the time to find what it prefers or build a round to suit. Most of these teeny/tiny pocket .380's seem to be ammunition sensitive to some degree.

The exception to that was the Ruger LCP which seems to chow down on everything we fed it but the recoil and control ability in rapid fire pushed it off the list for us. The LCP is just plain painful for some of us to shoot/practice with and that's not a good thing for a pistol that's gonna be a "go everywhere/all the time" pistol. I like the Kahr better except it was too difficult to find what it's preferred fodder was.

My Wife's go to is her G42 - I'm hoping a Pico will work for me (I do love the G42 but she won't give it up...) and we'll figure that out this weekend.

VooDoo

 

[bannockburn]

Of all the smaller size .380 pistols I have tried over the years the most reliable, most accurate, and with the best ergonomics (at least to me), have been the Colt Mustang and SIG P238.

 

[george burns]

If size matters, I prefer the pm9, to any of the 380's. If you can carry one, you can carry the other. Or wait for that 10 ox Taurus, to hit the stands. The Taurus "VIEW" or the Smith Gunsmoke, are also small 38's that you can fire +p in, and you know they will go bang. it's too bad the 22 magnum is so iffy. I would get another of those NA 5 shot mini's.
How is the 17 HmR as far as a defensive close range round. I am surprised no one has come out with a 20 round version of that.
That keltec might work, "it has enough rounds" but is way too big, and I don't think I want to risk my life on that gun, I can just see 30 rounds falling out of the magazine.
But if it worked right, you could shoot a heck of a lot of rounds at someone very fast. I had a good and a bad experience with Kahr, my current edc for the past 3 yrs. is a PM9, and they aren't cheap, but it just shoots anything.
But I bought the first 9mm they came out with, and it never ran right, I sold it and swore off them for 18 years.
It's simple, if you buy a gun and it functions for you, then you love it and can't understand why someone is saying bad things about it. But if the opposite is true, then you hate it and can't understand why everyone can't see that.

 

[Jlr2267]

If size matters, I prefer the pm9, to any of the 380's. If you can carry one, you can carry the other. Or wait for that 10 ox Taurus, to hit the stands. The Taurus "VIEW" or the Smith Gunsmoke, are also small 38's that you can fire +p in, and you know they will go bang. it's too bad the 22 magnum is so iffy. I would get another of those NA 5 shot mini's.
How is the 17 HmR as far as a defensive close range round. I am surprised no one has come out with a 20 round version of that.
That keltec might work, "it has enough rounds" but is way too big, and I don't think I want to risk my life on that gun, I can just see 30 rounds falling out of the magazine.
But if it worked right, you could shoot a heck of a lot of rounds at someone very fast. I had a good and a bad experience with Kahr, my current edc for the past 3 yrs. is a PM9, and they aren't cheap, but it just shoots anything.
But I bought the first 9mm they came out with, and it never ran right, I sold it and swore off them for 18 years.
It's simple, if you buy a gun and it functions for you, then you love it and can't understand why someone is saying bad things about it. But if the opposite is true, then you hate it and can't understand why everyone can't see that.

I had a CM9 and foolishly let it get away. For me though, it was not what I'd consider a pocket gun. I wanted the 380 to be something I could "grab and go" no matter what I'm wearing. I think it'll fill that role nicely once I find the right ammo for it. So far, its run 100% with jhp's...the sensitivity to ammo though means I'll need to vet it much more thoroughly before carrying it.

 

[george burns]

Have you tried a Remora pocket holster, I get mine in several different styles of pants both in and out of the pocket, "at night I take it out and IWB it. I guess it depends on your dress. I can get it in Gym pants, or dress pants, or loose jeans.
I also found that if you use Loctite, and attach a clip to a Remora, it works either way much better.
Because Gym pants are so loose below the elastic, the Remora will fall off, "I don't care what they say". but the clip works.
Also a Versa Carry works well.

 

[Jlr2267]

Have you tried a Remora pocket holster, I get mine in several different styles of pants both in and out of the pocket, "at night I take it out and IWB it. I guess it depends on your dress. I can get it in Gym pants, or dress pants, or loose jeans.
I also found that if you use Loctite, and attach a clip to a Remora, it works either way much better.
Because Gym pants are so loose below the elastic, the Remora will fall off, "I don't care what they say". but the clip works.
Also a Versa Carry works well.

Yep, I tried Remora, Desantis (which I really liked), sticky holster and a Galco. On me, the CM9 printed badly with any holster in a pants pocket. The little 380 just disappears. I carry a Shield now IWB but I sure miss my CM9.

 

[HankB]

Funny how the gun rags never seemed to discover any problems with the polymer Kahrs during their "testing". I had a P9 with numerous problems - three trips back to the factory failed to make the gun reliably, so Kahr replaced it.

I traded the unfired replacement for a G26, which isn't as neat a package, but it actually WORKS.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

If Kahr could make a pistol that runs like my G26 I'd buy it in a heart beat. If Kahr could build a pistol that would run like my G42, I'd buy it in a heart beat.

VooDoo

 

[SDGlock23]

I mentioned this in another thread, but maybe on a different forum, but Fiocchi FMJ ammo still has belling in the case which is why it won't feed. My CW380 will eat just about anything except that and that's why. I no longer reload for the 380 so I had to take a set of pliers and literally squeeze out the belling in the case of the Fiocchi FMJ ammo, and as I figured, afterwards it ate it just fine. That's why the rim is "thicker", it's just got belling left in it and that's why your CW380 doesn't like it.

 

[Zerodefect]

My Kahrs have stiff recoil springs. As you noticed, quality defensive ammo runs 100% in them, cheap plinking ammo does not. Cheap ball ammo isn't powerful enough to cycle them properly.

Hot ammo makes all my Kahrs 100% reliable. Corbon Powerball has been my carry ammo in my P380.

 

[kokapelli]

My Kahrs have stiff recoil springs. As you noticed, quality defensive ammo runs 100% in them, cheap plinking ammo does not. Cheap ball ammo isn't powerful enough to cycle them properly.

Hot ammo makes all my Kahrs 100% reliable. Corbon Powerball has been my carry ammo in my P380.

The powerball will only penetrate 9" in ballistic gelatin.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BSA1AOPezC0

 

[jrdolall]

It's good to have a defensive gun that fires JHP reliably but who can afford to practice with JHP?
When I am considering a pocket rocket it is about size and weight. Considering ANY of the Glock offerings for pocket carry absolutely does not work for me. Maybe if I wore cargo pants all the time it would but I don't dress around my gun. I want a gun that works with my clothes.
The KT P3AT has been the most reliable for me. The Bodyguard and LCP both have been good but the KT is a little smaller. I also have a DB 380 but haven't shot it enough to carry it. The DB9 has been very good with JHP but a couple of the FMJ choices I have used have caused the occasional FTF.
I have a LOT of small pistols.

 

[Jlr2267]

I mentioned this in another thread, but maybe on a different forum, but Fiocchi FMJ ammo still has belling in the case which is why it won't feed. My CW380 will eat just about anything except that and that's why. I no longer reload for the 380 so I had to take a set of pliers and literally squeeze out the belling in the case of the Fiocchi FMJ ammo, and as I figured, afterwards it ate it just fine. That's why the rim is "thicker", it's just got belling left in it and that's why your CW380 doesn't like it.

The rim I was referring to is the rim under the extractor. For the Fiocchi I was shooting, it was a full .010" thicker than the others I measured. I did not measure the cartridge diameter for a bulge, although I did notice what appears to be a crimp about 1/3 way down the case. Most (all) my FTF never got fully under the extractor. If I pulled back the slide, the Fiocchi ammo would plonk right down into the chamber. If it was bulged, it was not contributing to the problem.