Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Yes, but the recall was for barrels, not cycling problems.
Kahr PM-9 Failure to Battery
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warmrain
Member
Chambering initial round...
Tequila jake said:"I have the problem of the first round in a magazine not going into battery by racking the slide back and releasing it to slam the round forward. On the Kahr website under the FAQs, they say that if you have this problem, lock the slide back, insert the mag, then hit the slide release. When I do it this way, it works every time."
You can learn to do it by racking the slide, but it takes some practice. You have to be very aggesive; slipping off the back of the slide and hitting you chest... After some time you will get the hand of if and can stop striking yourself
orionengnr
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why would you want to use a two-handed method when it works just fine one handed (like every other semi-auto I own)
The advantages of a handgun are :a) concealability and b) one-hand operation. Why anyone would purposely practice a technique which sacrifices this advantage is beyond me.
Edited to add: except for my recently acquired Ruger MKII, which requires the two-hand technique to chambe the first round. This frustrates me to no end from a training and consistency in operation standpoint...
The advantages of a handgun are :a) concealability and b) one-hand operation. Why anyone would purposely practice a technique which sacrifices this advantage is beyond me.
Edited to add: except for my recently acquired Ruger MKII, which requires the two-hand technique to chambe the first round. This frustrates me to no end from a training and consistency in operation standpoint...
Below is my experience with the PM9. Good luck...
I also have had several problems with the Kahr PM9.
My first one had a "crunchy" trigger (bought as a present from my wife so I couldn’t try the trigger out first). No amount of oil or light sanding could fix it. I sent it to the factory and they sent it back untouched with no comment. Thanks, I guess… I sold that PM9 at a loss and bought another that had a better trigger.
The second PM9 I had would not return to battery. I called Kahr and waited several days for a return call from “Dotty.” Finally, they sent me a new recoil spring. Gun now goes into battery but fails to eject. Sent second Kahr back to factory and they sent me a new one.
The third Kahr made it about 300 rounds (that’s only 100 past the "break in period") and then the frame cracked. Sent that one back to the factory (Dotty and I are now real close… and received yet another (my 4th Kahr PM9).
Sold that PM9 [NIB unfired] to my local gun dealer and bought my first Glock. Maybe that 4th Kahr was the magic one. I will never know. My Glock 19 is accurate and 100% reliable.
I even had a jacket custom tailored to fit the PM9. More wasted money.
I loved that little PM9 but I just couldn't depend on it. I will say that PM9s are accurate when not jammed or busted. Kahr’s customer service was not great but they did really try and make it right (no less than 3 replacement Kahr PM9s, not counting the first ignored request…)
I simply don't think the PM9 is designed well and you have to be real lucky to get a good one. Even with a “good one,” I don’t think it will last if you shoot it much.
If Glock ever makes a single stack 9mm that is roughly the same size of the Kahr PM9 they will sell all they can make.
For now, if you need a reliable pocket gun, I would suggest a pre-lock S&W J frame in .357 or a baby Glock if you can fit it in your pocket. I went with the Glock 19 because it just felt right and I always carry in an inside jacket pocket and the Glock 19 conceals in a jacket just about as well as a baby Glock.
I also have had several problems with the Kahr PM9.
My first one had a "crunchy" trigger (bought as a present from my wife so I couldn’t try the trigger out first). No amount of oil or light sanding could fix it. I sent it to the factory and they sent it back untouched with no comment. Thanks, I guess… I sold that PM9 at a loss and bought another that had a better trigger.
The second PM9 I had would not return to battery. I called Kahr and waited several days for a return call from “Dotty.” Finally, they sent me a new recoil spring. Gun now goes into battery but fails to eject. Sent second Kahr back to factory and they sent me a new one.
The third Kahr made it about 300 rounds (that’s only 100 past the "break in period") and then the frame cracked. Sent that one back to the factory (Dotty and I are now real close… and received yet another (my 4th Kahr PM9).
Sold that PM9 [NIB unfired] to my local gun dealer and bought my first Glock. Maybe that 4th Kahr was the magic one. I will never know. My Glock 19 is accurate and 100% reliable.
I even had a jacket custom tailored to fit the PM9. More wasted money.
I loved that little PM9 but I just couldn't depend on it. I will say that PM9s are accurate when not jammed or busted. Kahr’s customer service was not great but they did really try and make it right (no less than 3 replacement Kahr PM9s, not counting the first ignored request…)
I simply don't think the PM9 is designed well and you have to be real lucky to get a good one. Even with a “good one,” I don’t think it will last if you shoot it much.
If Glock ever makes a single stack 9mm that is roughly the same size of the Kahr PM9 they will sell all they can make.
For now, if you need a reliable pocket gun, I would suggest a pre-lock S&W J frame in .357 or a baby Glock if you can fit it in your pocket. I went with the Glock 19 because it just felt right and I always carry in an inside jacket pocket and the Glock 19 conceals in a jacket just about as well as a baby Glock.
Manedwolf
member
Glock is stuck in the 90's in their clunky thickness, IMO. You can do a lot better with newer offierings from Springfield and Taurus if you don't like the Kahr.
warmrain
Member
orionengnr,
For exactly the reason you illustrate...
Some guns require it (e.g PPK, Rohrbaugh R9, NAA Guardian)
It works for every semi-auto. If you shoot or carry more than one (depending on weather, dress, deep concealment requirments, duty vs. off duty) then you learn one technique that works for all.
If you pick up a field piece it is instinctive, it will work.
For exactly the reason you illustrate...
Some guns require it (e.g PPK, Rohrbaugh R9, NAA Guardian)
It works for every semi-auto. If you shoot or carry more than one (depending on weather, dress, deep concealment requirments, duty vs. off duty) then you learn one technique that works for all.
If you pick up a field piece it is instinctive, it will work.
orionengnr
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no, do not agree.
Only my Ruger MKII requires this, and it is not a CCW or SD weapon.
To restate, none of my semis require this two-handed action.
If I had been aware of this characteristic, I would not have bought it. And I may very well sell it as a result.
Only my Ruger MKII requires this, and it is not a CCW or SD weapon.
To restate, none of my semis require this two-handed action.
If I had been aware of this characteristic, I would not have bought it. And I may very well sell it as a result.
warmrain
Member
orionengnr,
You've got me confused...
Do all your semis with the exception of the MKII Ruger have a convenient way to chamber the first round or even just drop the slide with only one hand?
You've got me confused...
Do all your semis with the exception of the MKII Ruger have a convenient way to chamber the first round or even just drop the slide with only one hand?
orionengnr
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ummm...
all of my semis chamber the first round by dropping the slide, by tapping the slide release... as designed. One hand operation, blidfolded, in the dark.
all of my semis chamber the first round by dropping the slide, by tapping the slide release... as designed. One hand operation, blidfolded, in the dark.
warmrain
Member
Hmmm...
You can do that, drop the slide, with your strong hand?
My hands are neither large nor small, I can wear some medium gloves, but generally am more comfortable in large gloves. Yet I cannot reach the slide release on a 1911 or a M9 without shifting my grip enough to make the operation quicker with two hands...
Are your hands unu. large or do you have unique pistols?
In the hundreds of hours of training I've had, I've never been taught by any instructor to attempt this one handed. Quite the contrary, most prefer the slip rack over even a two handed release of the slide lock...
You can do that, drop the slide, with your strong hand?
My hands are neither large nor small, I can wear some medium gloves, but generally am more comfortable in large gloves. Yet I cannot reach the slide release on a 1911 or a M9 without shifting my grip enough to make the operation quicker with two hands...
Are your hands unu. large or do you have unique pistols?
In the hundreds of hours of training I've had, I've never been taught by any instructor to attempt this one handed. Quite the contrary, most prefer the slip rack over even a two handed release of the slide lock...
orionengnr
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you can do it whatever way you like.
I try and do it one handed, and no, I don't have large mitts. If, and it is an if, one hand is injured or "otherwise occupied", i.e. grappling, etc...
I don't have "hundreds of hours" of training. I have attended a few training sessions that did not specifically address this...so I am on my own.
YMMV
I try and do it one handed, and no, I don't have large mitts. If, and it is an if, one hand is injured or "otherwise occupied", i.e. grappling, etc...
I don't have "hundreds of hours" of training. I have attended a few training sessions that did not specifically address this...so I am on my own.
YMMV
warmrain
Member
Thanks for the kind reply orionengnr,
Nope, I can't do it whatever way I like because the way I would like would be to reach around with my strong (right) hand thumb and drop the slide just after my weak hand has slammed the magazine home. I just cannot reach the slide stop.
Make fun of the training I have had and yes... I am also a trainer... that's OK, we're here to share and I am trying to learn from you... only I can't seem to get it yet...
I understand that need to perform in a one handed operation. That makes it even harder for me to picture, help me here... Yes, I can twist the pistol in my grip and reach the slide stop and then twist it back. Kind of like I have to do when I lock the slide manually on the 1911... I can do that. I will do that if I have to... But that takes precious time and alters the grip twice...
Am I missing something obvious?
Nope, I can't do it whatever way I like because the way I would like would be to reach around with my strong (right) hand thumb and drop the slide just after my weak hand has slammed the magazine home. I just cannot reach the slide stop.
Make fun of the training I have had and yes... I am also a trainer...
that's OK, we're here to share and I am trying to learn from you... only I can't seem to get it yet... I understand that need to perform in a one handed operation. That makes it even harder for me to picture, help me here... Yes, I can twist the pistol in my grip and reach the slide stop and then twist it back. Kind of like I have to do when I lock the slide manually on the 1911... I can do that. I will do that if I have to... But that takes precious time and alters the grip twice...
Am I missing something obvious?
re: dropping the slide w/release
Another reason I've heard against, is that if you do it all the time, it will eventually wear down the slide release, as it is softer metal than the slide*. I don't know how true that is (I'm more of a slingshotter*), or if true, even how big of a deal it is. Probably takes tens of thousands of rounds to really get worn down anyways*.
But if that's what I need to do to keep my PM9 happy, that's what I'm going to do*.
*ymfmmv
Another reason I've heard against, is that if you do it all the time, it will eventually wear down the slide release, as it is softer metal than the slide*. I don't know how true that is (I'm more of a slingshotter*), or if true, even how big of a deal it is. Probably takes tens of thousands of rounds to really get worn down anyways*.
But if that's what I need to do to keep my PM9 happy, that's what I'm going to do*.
*ymfmmv
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Slide releases are fairly cheap.
If you worried about wearing out every part because of use, then you couldn't shoot you gun. After all, the gun will last a lot longer if you don't shoot it.
It would be one thing if a major part, in this case the slide, wore out as a result of the action as slides are costly. A slide stop is fairly cheap.
Now, I have 80K on my CQB 1911 from Wilson Combat. I have the original slide stop. I use the slide stop as a slide release maybe half the time. It works fine. I have broken one barrel bushing, plunger tude, 4 ambi safeties, and worn out two barrels in that time, but the slide stop is fine.
On my PM9, 4500 rounds so far, I use the slide stop most of the time. I don't see any signs of premature wear other than the finish being gone, but then again, the finish is wearing off in several spots.
If you worried about wearing out every part because of use, then you couldn't shoot you gun. After all, the gun will last a lot longer if you don't shoot it.
It would be one thing if a major part, in this case the slide, wore out as a result of the action as slides are costly. A slide stop is fairly cheap.
Now, I have 80K on my CQB 1911 from Wilson Combat. I have the original slide stop. I use the slide stop as a slide release maybe half the time. It works fine. I have broken one barrel bushing, plunger tude, 4 ambi safeties, and worn out two barrels in that time, but the slide stop is fine.
On my PM9, 4500 rounds so far, I use the slide stop most of the time. I don't see any signs of premature wear other than the finish being gone, but then again, the finish is wearing off in several spots.
warmrain
Member
jih26oo,
I've heard the same thing about the slide stop - slide wear issue. The only pistol I know where it is a real problem is the Colt Pony and Mustang. These particular pistols are known for wearing the slide stop and slide. The slide is eventually worn to the point where reliable lock on empty doesn't occur. Scott/McDougal did a lot of repair business in this area, C &S has taken that over.
orionengnr,
I found that I CAN reach the slide stop on the MK9 if I try. To do it reliably will take a little practice. I can't even get close the one on the 1911. I know somebody who put a slim grip on just the left panel to be able reach the mag release. This may help me reach the slide stop, but it is quite a ways away... I never considered the slim grip because I just didn't want my thumb that close to the mag release while shooting...
My backup/deep-concealment pieces are a NAA and a baby Browning. Neither of these has a slide release so just like switching between a 1911 and the MK9, a little re-training/familiarization will be required... I also have a PPK but it is not currently carried and may never be... Thanks for the input, I now realize that there is at least one pistol in my collection in which I can operate one handed. Once again I have found another reason to love the little MK9. I once shot a PPQ 588/600 with that little bugger!...
Best, Cars
I've heard the same thing about the slide stop - slide wear issue. The only pistol I know where it is a real problem is the Colt Pony and Mustang. These particular pistols are known for wearing the slide stop and slide. The slide is eventually worn to the point where reliable lock on empty doesn't occur. Scott/McDougal did a lot of repair business in this area, C &S has taken that over.
orionengnr,
I found that I CAN reach the slide stop on the MK9 if I try. To do it reliably will take a little practice. I can't even get close the one on the 1911. I know somebody who put a slim grip on just the left panel to be able reach the mag release. This may help me reach the slide stop, but it is quite a ways away... I never considered the slim grip because I just didn't want my thumb that close to the mag release while shooting...
My backup/deep-concealment pieces are a NAA and a baby Browning. Neither of these has a slide release so just like switching between a 1911 and the MK9, a little re-training/familiarization will be required... I also have a PPK but it is not currently carried and may never be... Thanks for the input, I now realize that there is at least one pistol in my collection in which I can operate one handed. Once again I have found another reason to love the little MK9. I once shot a PPQ 588/600 with that little bugger!...
Best, Cars
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