Kahr T9; overlooked engineering masterpiece?

[stretcharmstrong]

In doing some research for compact (not subcompact) handguns, I had decided (for me) that the Sig P239 was the way to go. I am having trouble (mentally) with plastic guns. But after comparing some spec's to the Kahr T9, I can't help but be impressed with the Kahr. (i already own an MK9...that helped too)

Kahr T9

Capacity 8 + 1
Barrel 4.0", polygonal rifling; 1-10 right-hand twist
Length O/A 6.5"
Height 4.95"
Slide Width .90"
Weight Pistol w/empty mag 28.1 ounces


Sig P239

Capacity 8 + 1
Barrel 3.6"
Length O/A 6.6"
Height 5.1"
Slide Width 1.2"
Weight Pistol w/empty mag 27.5 oz

I guess the thing that impresses me the most is that the barrel is 0.4" longer than the Sig but the length, height, and slide width are smaller!! Weight has a slight edge with the Sig being 0.6 oz. lighter.

Does any other gun manufacturer make an auto with a 4" barrel this small? If not, the Kahr T9 is really alot of gun in a small package.

 

[Sactown]

I'd like to take a look at a T9, but alas, the powers that be in the PRK, have decided that I can't have one unless Kahr pays the extortion...err testing fees. The T9 is one good looking gun. There was a review months ago in Guns and Ammo (yeah..I know they like everything). I like that it's a single stack and the grips look similar to the CZ75.

 

[Jiml3]

In my opinion, the sig has an additional advantage, After the first
shot, all follow up shots are single action and a shorter take up on the trigger means it's faster.
Whatever suits you best. Both good choices.

 

[jacketch]

Although I personally think it is a silly cartridge, you can also get the Sig 239 in 357sig and switch between 9mm, .40SW and 357sig.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

I don't want you guys to get the wrong idea about this post. The comparison to the Sig P239 isn't really the jist of what I am saying. In fact, i'm still leaning towards the Sig P239 because of the interchangable barrels and the fact that I have a Kahr (MK9) but don't own a Sig yet. I don't live in a carry state right now but when I do, I plan to eventually own both pistols. For now, the Sig would be more fun to tinker with extra barrels and such for the range. The main issue is what was discovered in comparing specs between the 2.

The point in question is if the Kahr T9 is the smallest gun available with a 4" barrell in a 9mm or larger caliber? And if it is, I think that this IS a big acheivment that has gone unrecognized.

 

[bad_dad_brad]

stretcharmstrong,

I think you would be correct in your analysis that the T9 is the smallest 8+1 4" barreled semi-automatic. It is certainly the slimest (same canted feed ramp as the K9 and MK9 allowing the trigger bar to sit high and into the frame), and it is an extremely beautiful pistol from all the pictures I have seen of it.

Personally, I prefer the Kahr trigger to DA autos.

I would like to see one before buying, but they are extremely rare right now. Maybe in a year of two. I really Kahrs, even though they are a little pricey. I have a older MK9 that I really like, and would like to add to my collection a K9 and T9.

The P239 is a nice pistol as well. Just sits too high in my hand for my liking (like most SIGs).

 

[only1asterisk]

Not to take anything away from Kahr Arms excellent pistol, but the measurements on the stat sheet are severly rounded off, at least on the K9. The OAL is a shade longer and the barrel a shade shorter. Regardless, the Kahr design is about the shortest thing going. While the trigger action is technically double action the system employees a precocked striker like a Glock allowing the designer to adjust the trigger. The last K9 Elite I testeds was a consistant 6.5lb trigger pull on every shot. Heavy enough not to need a manual safety, light enough to do decent work with. I much prefer the Kahr TP to the SIG 239 9mm, but then I have never really liked a traditional DA/SA pistols (among which the SIG is top notch).

Dave

 

[SouthpawShootr]

They are pretty, but I prefer my K9 to my dad's T9. The wood grips really bring out the looks of this gun. The Kahr has a lower bore axis and this changes the perception of recoil dramatically. More straight back with the Kahr vs. more upward flip with the Sig. Won't be difficult to handle with 9mm, but might make a slight difference in bringing your sights back on after firing.

 

[KT9]

I have been very impressed with mine.

 

[PCRCCW]

I will agree the mechanical design of the Kahr is a very very good design......you wont find a longer barrelled/shorter gun anywhere.
As far as the trigger comparison goes......Id much rather have the Elite trigger in DAO than the trad. D/A in regards to these two guns....Ive shot both extensively...the Sig is a nice gun.
The Kahr shoots better, feels nicer and is the one choice to me...
Shoot well

 

[tetchaje1]

Actually, the HK P7M8 is virtually identical to the SIG 239 and Kahr T9 is size but has a 4.13" barrel and an 8+1 capacity. The width across the grips is only 1.14" and the slide is even narrower (I bet, less than 1" also). Not to mention that every single trigger pull with the P7 is short and light, SA.

If you can afford the price of admission to the Cult, you might want to have a look at the P7s.

Height=5.04"
Length=6.54" (PSP version)

 

[bad_dad_brad]

tetchaje1,

I would love to have a P7, but as you said, they are real expensive even used ones.

I have handled them at gun shows, and they are really slim.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

I am actually very interested in joining the P7 cult. Cash is not usually a huge issue but it is right now as I am unemployed. However, the big money deterent is the equally as expensive "gift" I get my wife everytime I buy a gun to justify "why I need another gun." As a result, I only have 3 now. She does like jewelry Also, I need to see, handle, and hopefully shoot one to see if it's worth the $$$$ to me. I just think it is a really cool design.

edit: The P7 I think is already considered an engineering masterpiece by many. It certainly has not been overlooked.

 

[CZ-75]

Considering that this gun lists for ~$800, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to find a used P7. I have no idea what the market price is, though.

 

[MoNsTeR]

I've seen a few T9's in this area, prices around $700 or less. My own K9 Elite was $610.

 

[Handy]

It's kind of amazing how much the price of all steel Kahr pistols can range. I bought a like new MK9 2 years ago for $330. The T9 is essentially the same gun, bigger. The price difference begs the imagination.

I think Kahr's claim to fame is being the first manufacturer to make a concerted effort to make an auto slim (well, maybe second - P7). If you look at the the design of frame levers, locking systems, etc. in guns like the Beretta, Sig, S&W, they suggest a lack of regard for this trait.

Not taking anything away from Moon. The offset feed ramp and trigger design are definitely innovations.

I will say that the T9 tests I've read were a little disappointing in the accuracy department. I'm comparing to some K9 groups I've seen. Longer barrels don't make for more accuracy, but longer sight radiuses help you shoot tighter groups.

All in all, neat guns. I sold mine because the trigger was just too light for anything but holster carry. I found a P7 or 225 stuck in a waistband made for better concealment than the smaller MK9 in a holster.

 

[valnar]

I have a SIG P220 and P229 and I love them. The P239 does nothing for me (as compared to my P229 in 9mm anyway).

In those sizes, I'd take the Kahr K9/T9.

-Robert