kamasu-kissaki or the Americanized Tanto tip and penetration

[hso]

Most people only know of a "tanto" as a knife with an angular tip on a slightly curved blade. This Americanized tanto that Bob Lum came up with and that Cold Steel popularized is supposed to have "superior penetrating" power.



Michael Janich just did an article for the September, 2010 Tactical Knives testing this idea using a pendulum for consistency and various western and eastern style blades, including the kamasu tipped tanto. The conclusion of his tests? While the kamasu tip design won't be as prone to breakage from lateral forces or blunting/breaking from impact with hard obstacles (the infamous car hood videos from CS) the penetration of the blade is shallower than the other blades he tested. Much shallower.

It would be a good idea for folks to pick up a copy of the magazine and take a look at the whole article on page 8. The one thing I disagree with in the article is the repeated reference to the type of tip as a "sword-style" tip. Not all Katana had the kamasu kissaki. Since it was primarily swords that had it instead of true tantos I suppose the association is accurate, but I think it only presents a shallow view since there were a range of kissaki on katana.

 

[conw]

I assume the knives were standardized in thickness and sharpness in some way?

What tip offered the best performance?

 

[janobles14]

i would argue that the "penetrating power" stems from the fact that one can drive with more force without breakage. of course this may be your point entirely! i do like the k-kiss tip though.

 

[hso]

The dagger and aikuchi, pointy with smoothly curving shoulders to a relativey straight edge, were tested by Janich.

Each penetrated roughly the same and each penetrated 2 to 3 times as deeply as the Americanized tanto for the same force applied.

The widths of the blades were chosen to be the same so that the tip geometries were the only factor.

 

[sidheshooter]

I did see that. Interesting.

Anyone here ever read Bill Bagwell's arguments for a clip point as best of all in soft targets? Compelling stuff...

 

[hso]

The compelling fact is that while making this type of tip was possible across the world the design for blades focused on penetration are similar. The the fact that the angular reinforced tip is a recent introduction alone should tell us it isn't the great evolutionary advancement it's touted to be.

 

[jahwarrior]

i've never been a big fan of the 'tanto' tip anyway. at least now someone's done some testing to give me a valid reason other than 'just because'.

 

[memphisjim]

it was my understanding that the tanto was designed so that lesser penetration opens up a longer cut, being that it gets to its full width sooner

 

[The Highlander]

Makes sense if you think about it. If the points are all strong enough, the only benefit of the american tanto is nullified. The other knives probably penetrate well because the blade widens more smoothly than the angular american tanto. Also I've found that most american tantos (at least the ones I've handled) are not distal tapered whereas a lot of those japanese tanto blades are. (note these are just my personal observations from handling a couple tantos)

 

[sidheshooter]

The the fact that the angular reinforced tip is a recent introduction alone should tell us it isn't the great evolutionary advancement it's touted to be.

Getting back to the forum after a few days yields this wise observation that caught my eye. Indeed, if an advancement isn't one of materials, it probably is not an advancement at all, when talking about a tool with this long a track record.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I like the "tanto" tip only because it is easy to sharpen when done with straight lines. I dont buy the curved ones. Same thing with a wharnecliffe though. Too many designers bugger them up by making curved edges where they should be straight.

 

[liontribe]

this has always been a sticking point with me as well. i love japanese style blades, but hate faceted tanto tips on knives. aikuchi and kwaiken shapes are my favorites. this is my King Zero model.

liontribe

 

[hso]

I talked with Michael Janich briefly at the Blade Show this weekend and we compared test methods and conclusions. Pretty much the same thing. Turns out some of the knifemakers have done the same sort of thing as well with the same results.

 

[liontribe]

i really wanted to get over to the blade show this year. i just couldn't swing it with my schedule. maybe next year.

liontribe