writerinmo
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I lived in Junction City, just right down the road (around Fort Riley) from Manhattan. Metal detectors are already in place there... in the high school.
Kansas considering carry on campus; local paper editorial says what?
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Inebriated
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mrcooper said:
*facepalm*
I'm sure you're certainly an expert on the behavioral tendencies, of those of legal age to own a firearm, based upon their location.
Timothy_90
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As a 21 year old college student with a license to carry I can personally say that I get angry every time I see the little no guns sticker on the door of a campus building. I legally carried at the movie theater last night (Act of Valor was awesome btw) but for some unexplained reason my JA485 class is off limits? Where's the logic there? THERE ISN"T ANY!
Deus Machina
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With most of the students at my school, it would be a TERRIBLE idea to let them carry on campus.
Then again, most of the students at my school are under 21, have little or no training or interest in firearms, and no knowledge of what carrying one implies or demands.
These are obviously not the ones that can get licenses, and thus not the ones that campus carry would apply to.
I am of age, have applied and qualified for a license, and know very well where I can, cannot, and should not carry. I do not, but many of my similar peers also have military service in their past. We are much more representative of what campus carry would entail.
The problem: Which do you think the media flashes at you and everyone thinks of when someone mentions a college student?
Then again, most of the students at my school are under 21, have little or no training or interest in firearms, and no knowledge of what carrying one implies or demands.
These are obviously not the ones that can get licenses, and thus not the ones that campus carry would apply to.
I am of age, have applied and qualified for a license, and know very well where I can, cannot, and should not carry. I do not, but many of my similar peers also have military service in their past. We are much more representative of what campus carry would entail.
The problem: Which do you think the media flashes at you and everyone thinks of when someone mentions a college student?
cambeul41
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When I was at K-State, the quick-draw club was fairly popular. On meeting days, members often wore their guns to class.
I also had other classmates who lived out of town who brought shotguns to class, so they could harvest a rabbit or two for supper on their way home.
I also had other classmates who lived out of town who brought shotguns to class, so they could harvest a rabbit or two for supper on their way home.
Yo Mama
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That's not your choice to make. It's their choice, called freedom. Freedom makes some uncomfortable.
Have you asked them? Or is this just your assumption. In my state it's 18 to carry.
I could care less about the media. I care more about my children having the ability to protect themselves.
Deus Machina
Member
You're right, it's not my choice. But I also get to hear about the drinking, drugs, and general irresponsible behavior that goes along with it. They are allowed freedom, but that doesn't mean everything they do with it is a great idea.
No, I haven't asked these people directly, but I do know for a fact that a majority are straight out of high school, especially the irresponsible ones. The age is 21 in my state.
I assume you don't care about what the media thinks. Most of us here don't.
You also missed my point completely.
The point was that these are the people that the phrase 'college student' brings to mind, and that is the type of person that the media flashes into the debate. And this is the reason that people panic whenever campus carry comes up.
Good idea or not on a by-case basis, I am also of the opinion that every person that can legally acquire a carry license should be allowed to if it's required, and should be allowed to carry anywhere they can legally go. But carriers also have responsibilities to go along with it. 99.9% of carry license holders know this well. The rest of the population might not.
Our opinions only matter for so much. When you say 'college student', the masses at large imagine frat parties and in the end, to get these laws passed, we need enough of them to understand that these are not the people or places that would apply. We need to be able to say "These are the same people that get to carry everywhere else, and are perfectly responsible members of society" and get it heard. But most of the voting public only thinks about Animal House.
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I think the point of the naysayers is that many college kids are just extending their adolescence between 18-22. Some of them never grow up. Add underage drinking, debauchery, chest pounding, mob mentality and ill tempers, and it is a recipe for disaster.
The difference between them and the real world...or at a bar? Rarely in the real world do you have such a large concentration of "kids" the same age with the same mentality. Remember, the delta between being able to carry legally or not can be the difference of a single day (birthday). Surely no one expects somebody to grow up that much more within 24 hours?
I went to college. I know people there now. If you think they are a bunch of well behaved, honest citizens that never partake in the consumption of illegal substances, you are very, very wrong. We all know that doing so while carrying is wrong. I'm telling you, they don't.
That being said, I'm all for constitutional carry and don't think anyone's rights should be taken away. But if it was me, I'd probably avoid that particular party if I knew a bunch of drunk, gun carrying college kids were there. We can talk all we want about what is right or not, but hindsight is 20/20 and I'd rather not be dead. I could care less that after the fact a particular kid lost his carry license. After-the-fact is too late.
Now, here is the political speak.
If we push too hard to get this done and it backfires on us (no pun intended) and some college shootings happen, not only will that privilege be removed from the colleges again, but it will seep into the rest of society and hurt our freedoms even more. Nobody on the 11 O'clock news wants to see college kids getting shot, regardless of the reason or who was "right". That would be a gun control heyday.
The difference between them and the real world...or at a bar? Rarely in the real world do you have such a large concentration of "kids" the same age with the same mentality. Remember, the delta between being able to carry legally or not can be the difference of a single day (birthday). Surely no one expects somebody to grow up that much more within 24 hours?
I went to college. I know people there now. If you think they are a bunch of well behaved, honest citizens that never partake in the consumption of illegal substances, you are very, very wrong. We all know that doing so while carrying is wrong. I'm telling you, they don't.
That being said, I'm all for constitutional carry and don't think anyone's rights should be taken away. But if it was me, I'd probably avoid that particular party if I knew a bunch of drunk, gun carrying college kids were there. We can talk all we want about what is right or not, but hindsight is 20/20 and I'd rather not be dead. I could care less that after the fact a particular kid lost his carry license. After-the-fact is too late.
Now, here is the political speak.
If we push too hard to get this done and it backfires on us (no pun intended) and some college shootings happen, not only will that privilege be removed from the colleges again, but it will seep into the rest of society and hurt our freedoms even more. Nobody on the 11 O'clock news wants to see college kids getting shot, regardless of the reason or who was "right". That would be a gun control heyday.
I attend a concealed campus university and there has never been an issue. We have campus police occasionally come and talk to us about the dangers of guns and they try to discourage us from carrying. I pay no attention. If it were up to campus police and university employees, we would be legally prohibitted from carrying. Good thing it's up to the people rather than academia. Speak up and defend your rights!
mortablunt
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I am currently in college, and I'd like to disagree with you. Many of the students here are stupid and irresponsible. However, these tend to be the party people and they often come from antigun areas, having no interest in firearms. They wouldn't have gun money either; they've spent all their cash on liquor and Marijuana. The students who actually would be interested in guns are more interested in responsible gun handling, ownership, and usage. Remember that even the Undergrad Freshman are almost entirely 18 or older; old enough to be in the military.
I am definitely young, away from home, and single. If I got a girlfriend and lost her, I'dB SOD rather than kill anyone. I like my professors too much to kill them, and my anger wouldn't be directed at them anyway
Straight edge; haven't drank or smoked anything at college. Most angry drunk guys just yell, stomp, flail at each other, and then go elsewhere. Very few students here live off campus, let alone have guns. Off campus partying is common; normally they go to a nearby bigger college.
Officers here are private mall cops without weapons, handcuffs, or body armor. We're screwed if we have an active shooter scenario. Almost all the campus buildings are directly along one big main causeway. One moderately skilled guy with a rifle could shut down the whole place and that's the truth.
I'd walk across campus with an assault rifle on my back. I'd love to be able to do that sort of open carry. At many schools, security personnel carry guns openly, and the Police are not inundated with gun calls. Besides, the Police solve very few active shooter incidents. The number I have is 6%, and that's from a source from California. I can send anyone the whole slide show if they want it.
And I thought were had much ignorance over here. I'm in a place where my English teacher said that affirmative defense and carry permits are a license to murder.
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jrhyne
Member
Without being able to read the entire column, I'm confused. If campus concealed carry were to pass, why would there be a need for "airport style security", guards and metal detectors? To keep track of WHO is carrying? I don't get it.
JustinJ
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I believe that 21 year old people should be allowed to carry at school. But it is naive to pretend there are not valid concerns. Posters talking about how responsible they are or were in school in no way address the objections. Nobody is saying all college kids are too irresponsible to carry but that there is a large amount that aren't who would still qualify for a permit. Mix that with an environment full of parties, drugs, alcohol and macho attitudes and there is a higher chance of bad things happening than outside of a campus.
I am a Kansan who went to Emporia and had several friends who went to K-State at that time, late 60s and early 70s. We all had guns, but it didn't occur to us to carry on campus or anytime for that matter, other than to the target range or when hunting. But we often had guns in our cars. Now, most of my male friends and family have concealed carry permits and are armed most of the time. We must ask ourselves. Why? I have lots of guns, but don't feel the need to carry. But, to deny any responsible adult from carrying, simply because you don't happen to like it, to me, means you have been brain-washed by a media that is phobic about guns. I do plan to apply for a CC permit, just because I can.
Quick point to remember....to those people that continue to argue that college parties in college towns where CC is legal on campus are somehow riskier than parties on a campus where CC isn't legal are missing the main point made several times.....the parties are OFF CAMPUS where it's generally already legal if you have the required permit. The parties at K-State(and most other public universities I've visited) happen off campus, so the question should be "Should you be able to carry in class/lab, while walking across campus or while at work(for the faculty/staff)?"
Gun Geezer
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In Texas, you have to be 21 years old to have a CCW. Not exactly kids that would be carrying. Much more likely the faculty and staff plus old timers like me going for a masters degree or some such.
I would agree that your average beer swilling frat daddy should not be armed. But then again, that frat daddy is the one who'll get shot if some nut case starts shooting in a lecture hall.
Ignition Override
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Where is "mrcooper's" logical rebuttal?
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