Kel-tec RFB vs Socom 16 or scout

[epijunkie67]

I currently own a full sized M1A but have been wanting something a little more compact. My eyes really won't let me take those 600 yard shots any more so a shorter barrel isn't going to be a problem. I'm wanting a handy general purpose rifle in .308, magazine fed, semi-auto with a 16" or 18" barrel.

My initial thought was a socom 16 or the springfield scout with 18" barrel and black composite stock. But while looking around I noticed the Kel-Tec RFB and wondered how it compares?

Anybody here shot both? Is there a difference in perceived recoil? Accuracy out to 300 yards? How does the RFB handle compared to the traditional M1A design?

Give me some feedback people!

 

[unwise11]

Socom II.. I know it's not listed, but very cool, or the Scout.

 

[General Geoff]

I would choose the RFB because it is far more compact than even a Socom II. Then again, the RFB is also supposedly suffering from some teething problems as it's a very new and unproven design. But I think it's worth taking a chance on.

 

[epijunkie67]

I'm hoping someone has actually shot both and can give me a personal evaluation of how they each handle. I like the feel of my full sized M1A but I'm open to the RFB if it handles well.

 

[kmcintosh78]

RFB is a good, but very new design. The M1A is tried and true. Also, if you wanted compact, you can get a bush/scout/socom and install it in the bullpup chasis. I have a M1A and shot a friends M1A in the bullpup and it is sweet.

 

[TIMC]

I own an M-21 and an RFB so I am close to the opinion you are looking for.

Some of the differences with the RFB are:
Greater recoil; the RFB has a sharp felt recoil due to stock design. I tamed mine down with a JP enterprises recoil eliminator but it is very loud with the short design, I would not shoot it without ear plugs as I have it set up.

Much more difficult to stabalize off a rest over the M1A; it doesn't sandbag well.

Accuracy is decent so I would think it would give the Socom or the scout a run for the money.

As a CQB rifle I think the RFB is better than the Scout or Socom. the gun sits in very tight and points well. In tight spaces it is great.

As a hunting rifle the RFB will get the job done but I would probably prefer the scout or the Socom.

Here are a couple pics of my RFB...

 

[fireside44]

I'd go with a Scout. That there is about as good as it gets for an all around useful gun.

 

[EmbarkChief]

Scout, I have the privledge of owning one and have never had a single issue with it. If I were only able to own one gun this would be it.

 

[epijunkie67]

Thanks TIMC. That is exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for. You discussed the noise level. Is it really that much worse?

 

[jerkface11]

The next group I see posted from an RFB will be the first.

 

[TIMC]

Thanks TIMC. That is exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for. You discussed the noise level. Is it really that much worse?

The noise is worse with or without a muzzle brake simply because your ear is closer to the end of the barrel by probably 14" compared to the scout because you do not have the stock to push it out away from your ear. The OAL of the RFB is only 26" and the OAL of the Scout is 40"

I don't really have an issues with the noise because even when I hunt I have ear plugs in. I fired the RFB once with the brake installed and I forgot to put an ear plug in my left ear, it was rather painful!

 

[epijunkie67]

Hmm. Kind of makes you wonder about the RFBs usefulness as a "tactical" weapon, since that's part of its appeal. Don't think you're going to be wearing ear plugs if people are shooting at you. Lol

 

[General Geoff]

Hmm. Kind of makes you wonder about the RFBs usefulness as a "tactical" weapon, since that's part of its appeal. Don't think you're going to be wearing ear plugs if people are shooting at you. Lol

My electronic ear muffs sit right on top of my M1A. If I have time to go for the rifle, I'll likely have a few extra seconds to throw on hearing protection. The muffs not only protect my hearing from loud noises, they also enhance my situational awareness by amplifying quiet noises.

 

[Gelgoog]

If you have time to put earplugs in then great. But in a real combat situation your adrenaline is rushing and your ears are less susceptible to hearing damage. If you are outdoors then you likely will not have any hearing damage from using an RFB. inside a small room or vehicle though and it might be a different story.

Most of us are not going to be manning large crew served weapons either so it is kind of a moot point.

Now very loud noises when your adrenaline is not rushing will hurt, especially if you are surprised. But once it gets pumping you likely will not incur much if any hearing damage.

 

[wally]

My electronic ear muffs sit right on top of my

Most recommended for home defense. No sense letting a bad guy ruin your hearing ... If you think they are loud at the range, fire one in a confined space!

 

[bigmike45]

Unfortunately I have never had any of the fine SOCOM or Scout offerings out there but I have been shooting my Winchester, Pre 64 Mod 70 for years and it is a bonafied hole in a hole shooter. I always wanted a semi auto in .308/7.62mm for hog hunting and looked at several guns that offered that caliber. I have several AR-15's and was about to order an AR-10. Into the shop comes the RFB and I was immediate amazed at the bullpup design. After it sat on the shelf for over a week, and no one even asked to look at it, I decided to purchase my first bullpup design carbine. I made a partial trade of one of my 3 AR-15's and took it home. After reading the manual I field stripped, cleaned and relubed the gun and picked up the only box of 7.62mm I had laying around. The Winchester has been written about as being a "dont use due to reliability" ammo but it was all I had. I headed to the range and took along a brand new Vortex Strikefire that I had purchased for one of my AR's. I installed the sight and loaded all 20 into the clip. I fired the first 10, as fast as I could just to check function and was immediately amazed at the comfort and lack of recoil and muzzle rise. The next 10 were to sight in the Strikefire. Since I had run off and left my laser boresighter at home. I just winged it. The picture below will show the progress with the last two shots almost touching and just to the right of the bull. All shots were at 50 yards.

I do like this rifle and am looking forward to shooting some different ammo to see if it is as consistient in function and as accurate. I will more than likely suppress the gun later this year for hog hunting and try some of the different sub-sonic ammo out there as well.

 

[mshootnit]

If you don't consider a Saiga 308 you are absolutely selling yourself short. Mine has it all over my buddy's SOCOMII. It will kick the SOCOMII's buttstock in any comparison any day. And I have 2 M1a's myself.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

I have been very pleased with my SOCOM 16. The front sights are a bit larger than the full length version and have a tritium insert (at least mine does) for low light shooting. It has been 100% reliable through the 500 rounds I've put through it and is as accurate as my full length M1A. It occupies the front row of my gunsafe...along with its M1 Garand uncle.

Cheers,

FH

PS- I got a Bassett Machine high Picatinny scope mount last week that I've used on my full length M1A. It's a wonderful mount, highly thought of by Art Luppino and the pros over at the M14 forum and, based on about 50 rounds experience, me as well. I'd recommend a duplex reticle on any scope you use with an M1A...that way, if your brass hits the windage knob, you can rotate the scope 90* counterclockwise to solve that problem (I don't have it but some do).

 

[henschman]

It's just basically whatever floats your boat. They both have plusses and minuses.

RFB = shorter, lighter, easier to mount optics on but relatively unproven and would not work well with iron sights (the sight radius would be way too short).

M1A = great iron sights, tried and true, but heavier and longer and more difficult to mount an optic.

 

[CraigC]

But once it gets pumping you likely will not incur much if any hearing damage.

The adrenaline rush associated with a fight for your life may affect your perception of sound but it will not magically save your hearing from physical damage.

 

[cottonmouth]

I have a SOCOM II and like it, M1A's have been around a long time so I vote Springfield.

J.B.