Kerry fails to back up foreign 'endorsements'

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w4rma=troll.


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Sean Smith

You know, before you start troll slapping somebody, you might want to see if you know what your talking about. I have no idea who w4rma is, but he has well over 400 posts on this forum. He's not a troll, he just has information to back up a position you don't like. Kind of looks pathetic when troll bashing is the best you can do to put down somebody's post.
 
bountyhunter

w4rma could better be described as a hit-and-run artist than a troll. He pops in, posts a cut-n-paste article and bails. Sometimes, as with the two threads combined here, he will cross-post the same article to two or three related threads. Seldom does he attempt to defend that which he posts.

Find one of his posts, click on the "search" box at the bottom of the post, then go through the found posts to get an education on what I am saying.

As an example: He posted the article "Accused spy is cousin of Bush staffer" HERE and HERE within three minutes of each other (6:42PM and 6:45PM 3-11-04)
 
What's pathetic is not acknowledging that in the context of the conversation, it doesn't matter if Kerry said "more leaders" instead of "foriegn leaders". He meant the same thing, and he obviously knows it, as evidenced by his campaign's response.
 
Again since bountyhunter seams to be having a little trouble getting the CONTEXT. It appears context is a FOREIGN concept to him. :banghead:

You travel around outside the states, the people are still [inaudible] Europeans and elsewhere

The news, the coverage in other countries, the news in other places. I've met more leaders who can't go out and say it all publicly

whereever they can find an American abroad

"the news in other places" must be off world...Where's the StarGate
 
You know, before you start troll slapping somebody, you might want to see if you know what your talking about. I have no idea who w4rma is, but he has well over 400 posts on this forum. He's not a troll, he just has information to back up a position you don't like. Kind of looks pathetic when troll bashing is the best you can do to put down somebody's post.

You know, before you start defending somebody, you might want to see if you know what you are talking about. He has well over 400 posts on this forum... almost all flooding Legal and Political with redundant quotes from partisan "news" sources. I don't care that he's a liberal, but rather that he is an outright spammer who is inexplicably tolerated here. See his multiple identical copy-and-paste quotes on various topics for details. :rolleyes:
 
More Endorsements.

Publication:The New York Sun; Date:Mar 15, 2004; Section:Front page; Page:1


French Going Wild For Senator Kerry In Election Fever

‘A CERTAIN ELEGANCE’ IS SEEN

By MICHAEL MANVILLE Special to the Sun



PARIS — It could be the flawless French he learned while at boarding school in Switzerland. Or that he summered in his youth at a picturesque village on the rocky shores of Brittany. Or his pledge to take America’s allies more seriously and pursue an inclusive foreign policy.

Or maybe it’s the simple fact that he’s not President Bush.

Whatever the reason, the French are going wild for John Kerry.

His face graces the covers of magazines and newspapers on Paris newsstands. He’s the subject of radio phone-in and television talk shows. Journalists chase down distant relatives and long-forgotten acquaintances in search of anecdotes.

If November’s presidential election were being held here, there’s no doubt that Mr. Kerry, the Massachusetts senator and Democratic candidate, would win by a landslide.

“People are going crazy. My phone is ringing from morning to night because everybody wants to know about Kerry,†said the head of the France chapter of Democrats Abroad, Constance Borde. “I’m even getting calls from French people asking if they can contribute to the campaign, and of course I have to tell them no.This is something I’ve never seen happening.â€

It seems hard to imagine the French being enthusiastic about anything American these days. Under Mr. Bush, relations between France and America have been at their lowest ebb in decades, with the two nations trading jabs for more than a year over French opposition to the war in Iraq.

While Americans were muttering about “cheese-eating surrender monkeys,†the French were crying foul over “American imperialism†and burning Mr.Bush in effigy on the streets of Paris.

“There is no question the Bush administration is unpopular in France, as it is across Europe,†said the director of the French Center on the United States, Guillaume Parmentier.“Bush himself is deeply unpopular. He is perceived as being non-presidential; even his demeanor makes Europeans uneasy.â€

But in Mr. Kerry, the French seem to have found an American they can embrace.

On the streets of Paris, his candidacy is being welcomed with open arms.

“He is very much admired in France,†said a municipal office worker, Patrick Forestier, as he strolled with his lunch through the Latin Quarter. “It seems like he will be more sympathetic to Europe… .And of course anyone who is opposed to Bush will be popular with us.â€

A shop worker on Boulevard St-Germain, Dominique Van Oudenhove, said Mr. Kerry seems the perfect antidote to four years of Mr. Bush.

“It is so important to have a president who knows Europe, whose spirit is open to its people and culture. Bush is so closed to the world.With Kerry there is a hope that we can start getting along with the United States again,†she said.

Mrs. Borde said the French see in Mr. Kerry the kind of leader they are more accustomed to.

“He is the closest thing that you will have to a French politician, with a certain diplomacy, a certain elegance,†she said.“He is more like a leader would be in Europe,†Mr. Parmentier said. Asked in what way, he laughed and replied: “Well, he doesn’t look Texan.â€

Instead, he looks like the kind of American the French have always appreciated — urbane, well traveled, and sophisticated. Mr. Kerry’s connection with France dates back to his youth, when he spent summers with a flock of cousins in St-Briac-sur-Mer, a summer resort town where his maternal grandfather had built an estate.

James Grant Forbes, an international lawyer and banker,settled there with his wife, Margaret Winthrop, in 1908. The couple raised 11 children, including Mr. Kerry’s mother.

Their rambling cliffside property, called “Les Essarts,†was destroyed when Nazi troops occupied St-Briac, but Mr. Kerry’s grandfather rebuilt the estate and it became a regular summer haunt of far-flung relatives.

One of Mr. Kerry’s cousins, 58-yearold Brice Lalonde, is a former French environment minister and now mayor of St-Briac.In an article in L’Express under the headline “My cousin JFK,†Mr. Lalonde recently wrote of how Mr. Kerry always took charge of his cousins’ activities when he visited the estate.

“He was the one who organized the games, who led the gang,†wrote Mr. Lalonde, whose car sports a “Kerry For President†bumper sticker.

Still, Mr. Kerry has not returned to St-Briac in 20 years. At the height of American-French tensions last year, he skipped a family reunion that saw more than 200 relatives gather at the estate.

In fact, some here are looking to downplay his European connections, fearful that they may harm him in the campaign and give ammunition to the Republicans. One Bush administration official has commented that Mr. Kerry “looks French.â€

Mr. Lalonde has repeatedly told reporters Mr. Kerry is a quintessential American with a deep sense of patriotism.“To cut off all suggestion,well-meaning or ill-meaning depending on what side of the Atlantic it comes from, John Kerry is in no way a Frenchman, even if he knows France,†Mr. Lalonde wrote.

Mrs. Borde said she believes Mr. Kerry’s past will be more of an asset than a drawback.“I think this could play in his favor,†she said. “Ordinary Americans are beginning to understand what damage has been done to our international reputation and they’re getting worried about it.â€

Some observers here wonder if the French are not in for a disappointment if Mr. Kerry becomes president.

Mr. Parmentier said French fans tend to forget the fact that Mr. Kerry supported the war in Iraq and that he isn’t likely to drastically change American foreign policy.

“His attitude is very different, so the atmosphere will probably be better,†he said. “But there is a limit to what he can do.†In an opinion piece published last week in Le Figaro, Bruno Tertrais, an analyst with France’s Foundation for Strategic Research, warned that the French are “dreaming†if they expect Mr. Kerry will give them “an America they can love.â€

Writing that the French are expecting a victory for Mr. Kerry will mean an end to “neo-conservatives and fundamentalists, to military super-strength and attempts to reshape the world,â€Mr. Tertrais said he wanted to “shatter some illusions.â€

He wrote that American political culture was so changed by the September 11 attacks that the Democrats would be no less likely than the Republicans to exercise American military power.

“Bush or Kerry, the next occupant of the White House will still be a war president,†he wrote.

And as for rebuilding U.S.-French relations, Mr.Tertrais held out little hope that Mr. Kerry would be any different from his predecessor.

“The transatlantic crisis of 2003 is still too fresh for any American president, no matter who he is, to reach out his hand too visibly to our country.â€

The French aren’t the only Europeans laying claim to a connection with John Kerry. In the tiny Czech village of Horni Benesov — the birthplace of Mr. Kerry’s paternal grandfather — residents are hoping to one day host a presidential visit. “I believe he will become the American president. He seems a very reasonable, very likeable person,†the town’s mayor, Josef Klech, told Reuters recently. “He has said he has an interest in coming here if he visits the Czech Republic. This can put our small town on the world map.â€

Mr. Kerry’s grandfather was Fritz Kohn, an ethnic German Jew born in Horni Benesov, a former mining town near the Polish border. A brewer in a land known for its fine beers, Khon moved to America at the turn of the last century, converted to Catholicism, and changed his name to Frederick Kerry. Mr. Kerry was unaware of his grandfather’s roots until a genealogist dug up the news last summer
 
My response to Bountyhunter's comments:

He didn't say "government leaders", he said "leaders". They could be Boy Scout leaders for all the quote says. Sure is funny this is the best Bushies can find to bash Kerry on...
I suppose you could be correct in that, although I don't know if that makes it any better. It seems to me that a French boy scout leader endorsement really doesn't mean anything as far as getting elected goes. If that is the case, than I think we are all quite mistaken and foolish for getting in to a such a heated discussion over the endorsement of such a group. I have nothing against the boy scouts or their leaders, but an endorsement by the french boy scouts won't influence me when I go to the polls. Therefore, for the sake of discussion, I am going to take the liberty of assuming that Kerry meant real "foreign leaders".

I also don't consider myself a Bushie, nor do I want to bash Kerry. Perhaps some see the endorsement of many of the world's leaders as a positive, although I think most would agree that it really depends on who it is exactly that is making the endorsement. Many might see an endorsement by Chirac as a good thing, while others will not. I don't think anyone will see an endorsement by Osama as a good thing, however. The North Korea endorsement isn't particularly appealing to me, personally. For this reason, however, I would like to know just who these foreign leaders are. I think it would help us all see what these endorsements really mean.
And I have a little shock for you: if you took a PRIVATE vote among world leaders so no Bush retaliation could be implemented, I would wager at least 80% of the leaders of the sovereign nations on this earth want Bush dumped for "anybody else". If you doubt it, just check the UN votes against all of his proposed amendments in the last two years.
That wouldn't shock me at all. I bet that you're probably right, or at least in the ballpark. Once again, however, I would like to know more than pure numbers. I personally do not care a whole lot about what the rest of the world thinks of me or the US. I speak only for myself, but I care much more about other issues. I get the sense that many people from throughout the world simply don't like Americans. We are arrogant and self-righteous and we whine when we don't get our way or when our precious rights are infringed. (That is not my opinion, but I have read or have been told in person all of these things) While there are some bad apples, here I am absolutely 100% proud to be an American. I wouldn't want to be anything else.

Finally, I don't think we need the world's permission or endorsement to do what we need to protect ourselves. I do not want to get in to whether we were justified in going to Iraq right now, so let's just pretend that we have proven beyond all doubt that the "Peoples Republik of Satan Worshippers and Rapists" is a threat to our nation. But wait, France and Germany don't want us to act! They say that they won't endorse us anymore if we do! I don't care! We do what we feel is best for our security!

I don't make this point to argue about whether we should have gone to Iraq or anywhere else (another argument for another time). I make it to say that I don't think we need the world's approval to do what we think will be the most effective in protecting ourselves from attack.

Welp, sorry for the length. Tear me apart if ya like. :)
 
Seldom does he attempt to defend that which he posts.

In fairness, he used to, up until Dean got crushed.

Personally, I don't mind hearing opposing viewpoints, it's what separates us from DU.

If something is just unbelievably off the wall, I stop reading it and don't justify it with a reply.
 
If something is just unbelievably off the wall, I stop reading it and don't justify it with a reply.

That's what they want. They want to be the only voice being heard. They keep repeating the same old thing over and over hoping people get tired of calling them on it. Then it becomes so familiar that it starts sounding like it just might be true to the huddled masses who don't take time to think for themselves.

Don't laugh, I have seen it happen too many times. You're talking with someone about an issue and they spout off a sound byte that they have no facts to support. They have just heard it so many times that it must be true.

They are counting on thinking people getting tired of calling them on their ridiculous claims.
 
Mr. Sean Smith, in case you care (or hadn't noticed) my double post is the result of two threads on the same topic being combined. That said, noone has refuted the context of my double posts so there isn't anything else for me to say.
 
w4rma,

Have you been listening? sKerry was talking about FOREIGN states and said, within that context, that "many leaders" support him. He won't name names. He has not refuted the "foreign leader" argument other than to have BIG MEDIA change their story (he is still running with it).

If it was not so funny, it would be scary (sKerry, ha ha). A presidential candidate undermining foreign policy to obtain worthless endorsements? Who gives a rat's hiney what France, Mongolia, or Zimbabwe think? :neener:
 
Who gives a rat's hiney what France, Mongolia, or Zimbabwe think?
Bush also probably has the support of Saudi Arabia since he's been covering for them over the WTC bombings. I'd bet that the Chinese government is also supporting Bush, since Bush has allowed China to get away with breaking trade agreements to favor Chinese companies over American companies.
Like I said. Noone's refuted the context of my double posts.
 
Like I said. Noone's refuted the context of my double posts.

I told you guys their strategy is: "If I keep saying it maybe someone will believe it...or at least get tired and give up." :D

I have to give them one thing they are persistent. Persistently wrong, but still persistent. ;)
 
Here it is again. It seems you have trouble understanding unless you see it multiple times.

Again since bountyhunter seams to be having a little trouble getting the CONTEXT. It appears context is a FOREIGN concept to him. :banghead:

You travel around outside the states, the people are still [inaudible] Europeans and elsewhere

The news, the coverage in other countries, the news in other places. I've met more leaders who can't go out and say it all publicly

whereever they can find an American abroad

"the news in other places" must be off world...Where's the StarGate
 
I have to say that this reminds me of the floor debate in the Senate over S.1805. Senator Lautenberg had just complained that automobile manufacturers get sued if they make a defective gas tank and a car blows up and kills people. He then claimed that S.1805 would prevent people from suing a gun manufacturer if it was defective and blew up in their face.

Senator Craig stood up and exclaimed quite forcefully, "BEFORE YOU SAY ANYTHING, READ THE BILL!!! PLEASE READ THE BILL!!!"

Sorry, I know that's nowhere near a direct quote, if somebody knows what was said exactly please set the record straight. That was the gist of it, though.

W4rma, PLEASE READ THE THREAD! 7.62FullMetalJacket, TaurusCIA, and myself have all refuted the context of your double post. We have expressed opinions which conflict with yours. Am I missing something?
 
Jay Leno cleared up this controversy. He said that what actually happened was Kerry overheard a couple of supporters talking about him in an International House of Pancakes.
 
Why don't all these DemoRats just admit that they would vote for Joseph Stalin if it meant getting GWB out of office??
 
So, the French think Bush is too American to be President?

Is that a bad thing?

I also remember Sen. Kerry announcing, as the troops were moving in Iraq, that he was talking to foreign leaders about a needed "regime change" in the United States.

Hmmm. Conspiring with foreign agents about an over throw of the President during a time of war. (Which he personally voted for).

What's that T word that covers this topic?

Marty
 
Dagnabit MBG,

You should know by now that it's only wrong if they say it's wrong. Will you never learn?:D We common folk just aren't enlightened enough to understand there socialist ideals.
 
MBG

Actually, unless the foreign leaders he is conspiring with are the leaders of enemy nation states, the T word doesn't apply. What would apply more closely would be sedition.

sedition

\Se*di"tion\, n. [OE. sedicioun, OF. sedition, F. s['e]dition, fr. L. seditio, originally, a going aside; hence, an insurrectionary separation; pref. se-, sed-, aside + itio a going, fr. ire, itum, to go. Cf. Issue.]

1. The raising of commotion in a state, not amounting to insurrection; conduct tending to treason, but without an overt act; excitement of discontent against the government, or of resistance to lawful authority.

sedition

n : an illegal action inciting resistance to lawful authority and tending to cause the disruption or overthrow of the government
 
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