Kerry's Combat Awards

[bountyhunter]

Lot of accusations flying about whether kerry earned his awards. I found a web site with a fairly complete compilation of the circumstances surrounding his medals as well as some info from his CO and people who were serving with him. Some of it is pretty interesting.


http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

 

[Evil_Ed]

I have no issues with his service to his country in vietnam. I respect anyone who wore the uniform and made an effort to defend our country. However, I DO take issue with his behavior once he returned stateside in slandering his fellow servicemen and outright lying about supposed war crimes. But even that wouldn't be enough to really sway my vote, everyone does stupid stuff when they are young (admittedly some more stupid than others). I disagree with Kerry on fundamental issues such as the Bill of Rights, I support it and he doesn't. Being a Democrat Kerry is for entitlement and welfare programs that do not work. Charity should be taken care of by the local community voluntarily rather than by the government forcibly redistributing wealth.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Snopes does have a fairly complete compilation on the subject; but they have missed a few of the recent controversies:

Questions over first Purple Heart raised by Kerry's CO
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78548

Military actions noted on Kerry's website happened before he arrived
http://www.boston.com/news/politics...4/04/23/discrepancies_noted_in_kerrys_record/

 

[bountyhunter]

I have no issues with his service to his country in vietnam. I respect anyone who wore the uniform and made an effort to defend our country. However, I DO take issue with his behavior once he returned stateside in slandering his fellow servicemen and outright lying about supposed war crimes.

Me too. The reason I posted this link is because I am seeing posts all over the place saying he never earned his medals. A number of people have stated outright that he put in for purple hearts he never earned to get out of combat. The repub machine is attacking him on this, and it looks like the facts are that his service was pretty much as Kerry claimed it to be: medals were earned and he never ran from combat duty.

 

[agricola]

this is always something that amuses me from this side of the pond - one would have thought anyone with an ounce of sense in the Bush camp would remember the old adages about glass houses and those within them not throwing stones.

 

[bountyhunter]

From the thread at:

Questions over first Purple Heart raised by Kerry's CO
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthre...;threadid=78548

The Personnel Casualty Report from that day says Mr. Kerry "suffered shrapnel wounds in his left buttocks and contusions on his right forearm when a mine detonated close aboard" his boat.

But the citation for the Bronze Star that he was awarded for the same action described "his arm bleeding and in pain," saying nothing about arm bruises or shrapnel wounds anywhere. "I don't want to say it's a lie, but it isn't true," said Charles Kaufman, a retired Air Force captain whose job once was to submit military award requests.

"His Bronze Star medal citation appears to be based on an injury he did not receive," said Mr. Kaufman, who now lives in Germany. "His arm was not bleeding. They don't quite jibe," said James W. Doran, national service director of the advocacy group American Veterans. But he did not fault Mr. Kerry.

That's why I posted this link. I am no Kerry advocate, but truth is truth. A cursory reading of the above info makes it clear it's a hatchet job on Kerry. They quibble over whether his arm was bleeding or "only bruised", and ignore the fact that he received shrapnel wounds at the same iincident which alone would have qualified him for the purple heart.

 

[bountyhunter]

this is always something that amuses me from this side of the pond - one would have thought anyone with an ounce of sense in the Bush camp would remember the old adages about glass houses and those within them not throwing stones.

True, but lately anyone questioning the veracity of statements coming from the Bush camp have been summarily dismissed as terror lovers and traitors. The Bush camp has a lot of lattitude in the launching of unfounded attacks with a high degree of impunity. This particular one where they are dumping all over a guy who performed hazardous duty in country while Mr Bush spent the war in Alabama does get my goat a little.

 

[Thumper]

Bounty

Again, since you're big on logical fallacies:

The "glass houses" analogy is an excellent example of the Ad hominem tu quoque fallacy.

Hope this is helping your general fund of knowledge.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

bountyhunter:

A cursory reading of the above info makes it clear it's a hatchet job on Kerry. They quibble over whether his arm was bleeding or "only bruised", and ignore the fact that he received shrapnel wounds at the same iincident which alone would have qualified him for the purple heart.

The New York Times is involved in a hatchet job on Kerry? Strikes me as odd at the least. In any case, the paragraph you quoted isn't the one from his former CO Hibbard questioning his first Purple Heart. It is a completely separate issue from somebody else challenging his third Purple Heart and the accompanying Bronze Star.

agricola:

one would have thought anyone with an ounce of sense in the Bush camp would remember the old adages about glass houses and those within them not throwing stones.

My guess is the Bush camp feels there is little risk in throwing stones when all the windows in your glass house have been broken already. In addition to dredging the issue up during the 2000 campaign, the major networks (ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN) ran 63 stories on the subject just in the first half of February. Whatever political mileage Kerry is going to get out of those stories, he has already gotten - its kind of like a press innoculation in a way.

In any case I doubt it hurts Kerry or Bush much. Most swing voters couldn't care less what someone did or said 30 years ago. I think the only place it really hurts either is when they go on TV to respond to those charges and create fresh new negative images in the minds of swing voters.

 

[Joe Demko]

Both Bush and Kerry put in their time in the service. One saw combat, one didn't. Neither of them is a true lover of freedom and supporter of the Constitution. Neither of them deserves to be our next president.

 

[Braz]

The issue seems clear to me,

Do we want a wartime president who used his service to build a career, while at the same time, throwing his medals away in protest. The morals of the Vietnamese war can be debated, but the fact that his actions helped weaken our resolve can not. The folks I know in the service, all hate him.

We will win this war against outlaw clerics if we pull as a team. Let's stand shoulder to shoulder in spite of the 2k election venom. The identity of Foreign leaders, whom Kerry says of is "None of your business!", are not part of the team. We are. Our allies are. These murdering clerics are killing though out the world to spread their power. We can't allow it to continue.

We have the tools. Now we have a Leader with the will to remove this threat. No POTUS who went against his country in wartime for me. Just like WWII and the Cold War, we have to win this one. The alternative is too terrible to contemplate. Sic 'em W, and bless our servicemen and women.

 

[TaurusCIA]

The issue isn't that he pressed for a medal for a scratch that he received during a "a minor skirmish" that "hardly qualified as combat".

The issue is that Kerry can't stick with the same story long enough for the press to get bored and move on. The truth and John Kerry don't seem to be able to coexist regarding his heroic service.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In his account to "Tour of Duty" author Douglas Brinkley, Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry described his first encounter with enemy forces in Vietnam as an inconsequential skirmish that "hardly qualified as combat."

But on Sunday's "Meet the Press," Kerry's recollection of the episode was far more dramatic, with the top Democrat saying the confrontation not only was "frightening" but also was probably the worst combat his unit had experienced during the entire war.

Defending himself against charges that he put in for a Purple Heart for a relatively minor flesh wound after the Dec. 2, 1968 skirmish, Kerry told NBC newsman Tim Russert:
...

But in his account to biograpger Brinkley, Kerry dismissed the altercation as "a minor skirmish."

"It was a half-assed action that hardly qualified as combat," he confessed, in a discrepancy first reported Sunday by FreeRepublic.com.

"I felt terribly seasoned after this minor skirmish," Kerry continued to Brinkley. "But since I couldn't put my finger on what we had really accomplished or on what had happened, it was difficult to feel satisfied."

Link...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This "frightening" encounter with enemy forces that "was probably the worst combat his unit had experienced during the entire war" was "a minor skirmish" that "hardly qualified as combat". If this was the worst fighting he saw then how did he earn any commendations?

It is remarkable that he received such an UNUSUALLY high number of medals in so short a period of time given his comments about the combat itself.

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

The best measure of the worth of the two candidates service during the Vietnam war is the opinion that the other Vietnam Vets hold of them.

The vast majority of Vietnam Vets detest John Kerry. They consider him to be a liar for slandering their service, and a traitor for meeting with North Vietnamese Officials while US GI's were still fighting in Vietnam, and a traitor for other actions he undertook after the war.

Bush seems to be held in high regard by Vietnam Vets.

The question is; what kind of a reception would each man receive if they showed up unannounced at the Wall, say during Rolling Thunder.

Bush could walk around alone and get nothing but handshakes and warm greetings. Kerry would get his ass kicked, even with heavy Secret Service protection.

Here's a link to Vietnam Veteran Groups organizing anti-Kerry demonstrations for this summer and fall.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm