Knives - Strength, Utility, and Price

[MajorPowerchord]

I have a Gerber Gator folder. I love it. I want another knife but don't know much about the price vs quality issues.

What is the best metal to have a knife made of for strength, ability to hold an edge, etc?

What companies make knives using this steel?

I have read about price breaks where statements are made such as: "After $150 you are paying for (brand name, exotic materials, etc)" Where is the price break for a knife that you carry in the woods. I think I want a knife with a thumb stud and built-in clip.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Valkman]

Well, I think that statement is BS - you also get what you pay for. You can buy Chinese knock-offs for $5 or you can buy a Strider SMF for $475.

The hot steel seems to be S30V and it's used by at least Strider. Both my SMF and SNG are S30V.

If you want a killer folder for $150 look at the Emerson Commander. I have one of those also and it's a great knife.

 

[pete f]

there are a lot of new steels coming on the market now, Some are really good steps up and some are just marketting, IMHO.

For the most part the best all around steel i have found is ATS 34. it is tough as can be, very chip and breakage resistant and although not a joy to sharpen, it is not so hard as to be unsharpenable with normal methods. I think the biggest decoder becomes the quality of the heat treat. I have owned some really expensive knives that i did not think had the heat treat that some of the older knives had. For example I own a $350 folder, supposed by one of the best, and my buck odessey in ATS 34 will hold a better edge for a longer time than the high buck sandvik steel in the Uber folder. I also have been using some ATS 34 plane blades in my hand tools and find them just wonderfull to use. They will cut hard oak and maple with ease and killer wood like teak comes out like glass under the blades of this material. I have some D-2 steel blades in another tool and have gotten some really good luck out of them.

I would think you can a perfectly wonderful folder for about 100 bucks. Benchmade, Spyderco, Almar, all make really really good knives. The old standby Buck folding hunter will do you well for EDC too, I think they were better when made in California as the guys working the heat treat room had been there since the gold rush...One last word of advice. When you finally find that knife that just feel right, the one you reach for and go yup this is the knife for me, QUICK run out and buy a few more. or like me you will find your favority EDC is out of production and no one carries any NOS, If you buy a couple of back ups, you will never loose that favorite, but if you don't just as soon as you decide you can not concieve of another knife working as well, you will loose it.

 

[Valkman]

Buck Knives heat treat is done by Paul Bos, the best there is. Many of us send our knives to Bos for HT - I know I do.

ATS-34 is a great steel and I use it, but it's not the best. CPM154 and S30V are both tougher and will hold a better edge - but they are much, much more expensive.

 

[ecos]

What is the best metal to have a knife made of for strength, ability to hold an edge, etc?

unfortunately there is no best steel. there are quite a few good steels out there. ats34, 440c, O1, A2, D2, 1095, 1084, M2, S30V, etc, etc. to further complicate the matter strength and edge holding dont go hand in hand. generally speaking when you raise edge holding ability you lose toughness and viceversa. its a balancing act. (again generally speaking..not getting into carbide formation, grain size, etc)

ive found that proper heat treating and blade geometry play a bigger role in a knifes performance than the steel selection, as long as a decent steel is used.

i would base my knife search more on finding a reputable company than the best steel. ive had knives made out of the same material that were vastly different in perfomance because of the heat treat and geometry.

 

[Valkman]

I just finished a Camp Knife in ATS-34 with Bos heat treat, and that combo for me is just about perfect in terms of affordability yet giving the customer a great knife that will last and won't be hard to sharpen.

Bos does things in his shop that I can't do if I were to HT it myself. I can get an oven but stainless really needs the cryo treatment to complete the process.

Affordable, high quality steel + Bos heat treat = great knife!

 

[ecos]

ats34 is my favorite all around stainless to use. as you said good balace with price/performance

i would have to say i like O1 for my general all around carbon steel...although i use 1095 more often for price and crisper hamons.

 

[texascarl]

Some (not all) Wal-Marts are carrying the Spyderco Native, with S30V blade @ $40. Excellent steel, great bang-for-the-buck.

(I know there are plenty of folks who won't shop at Wal-Mart, they'll have to pass on this deal.)

 

[22-rimfire]

I would second the Syderco Native offered by Walmart as a moderate priced pocket knife. I am not much for clips and the clip can be easily removed on these or switched to which ever side you prefer.

A more traditional lock blade that is offered by Schatt & Morgan (Mountain Man series). Nice knife to use in the outdoors.

http://www.cumberlandknifeworks.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=schatt_mtman

If you want a big folder, the SOG Tomcat is an option. It is pretty much a sheath knife like the bigger Gerber Gater series.

 

[mr.trooper]

Reports, even among spyderco fans, have the Walmart version of the NAative as very hit-or-miss.

Another thing you have to consider is what the knife will be used for BEFORE you select a steel. for example: D2 is a very hard, brittle steel. It has awesome edge retention, due to its composition, and to the high HRC's it is usualy hardened to (60-62). It is an awesome steel for slicing, as it holds an edge in a way that few other steels can match. Its also fairly corosion resistant. Its a great steel for a knife that is used for lots of tough cutting and slicing. The weakness of this wonder steel? Its SUCKS for chopping. The reason is because it is too brittle. If used to chop anything significant, the edge will begin to chip. If the blade is not imediately re-profiled and re-sharpened, the chips will develop into cracks, and the blade will eventualy break.

Personaly, I think good old 1095 Carbon steel has the best ballance of toughness and edge retention that you need in a field/camp knife. Its not corosion resistant at all, so you do need to keep it clean and dry. Other steels may meet your needs in a more suitable fashion.

What kind of knife are you looking for? How will it be used? How hard will it be used, and how often? These questions all need to be answered before you can begin to make an informed desicion...

...Or you can just buy a Swamp Rat.

 

[JShirley]

Welcome to THR!

That statement about price over $150 is somewhat true. It's probably not true that you're just paying for name past that point, but it is true that you get diminishing returns: in other words, you may get, for instance 95% of the functionality out of a $70 folder that you'll get out of a $249 one. One really IS "better", but you'll have to determine for yourself if that last little bit of function is worth the 350% cost increase.

Here's a chart from Spyderco showing differences in steel composition. You'll have to search around a little to see what each is good for. Good luck, young Jedi. Your quest is just beginning.

One great place to look for good folders is Spyderco: in fact, I have a specific recommendation for you. Buy this knife, and I think you'll never regret it.

John