Lack of diversity in shooting sports
- Thread starter Guy B. Meredith
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Erich
Member
Cute . . .
. . . but having a diverse group (sorry if you don't like the word, but it's useful in this context) of folks involved in shooting does benefit those of us who want shooting sports to have as broad a constituency as possible.
The more shooters we have (spread across different backgrounds, ideologies, political parties, fraternal lodges, whatever), the better-equipped we are as a movement to deal with the stupidity of the gun-grabbers.
Plus, mastery of guns means a person has an increased likelihood of being able to control his destiny and thus be free. I want to live in a free country, and part of that requires everybody to be free (and able to control his/her own destiny).
I like seeing diversity at the range, and I think it has inherent value to us as shooters and as Americans.
. . . but having a diverse group (sorry if you don't like the word, but it's useful in this context) of folks involved in shooting does benefit those of us who want shooting sports to have as broad a constituency as possible.
The more shooters we have (spread across different backgrounds, ideologies, political parties, fraternal lodges, whatever), the better-equipped we are as a movement to deal with the stupidity of the gun-grabbers.
Plus, mastery of guns means a person has an increased likelihood of being able to control his destiny and thus be free. I want to live in a free country, and part of that requires everybody to be free (and able to control his/her own destiny).
I like seeing diversity at the range, and I think it has inherent value to us as shooters and as Americans.
srv656s
Member
I wonder how diverse this site is?
I'm Chinese, and have ever only seen one black guy at the range... never any other Chinese...
Shawn
I'm Chinese, and have ever only seen one black guy at the range... never any other Chinese...
Shawn
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Guy B. Meredith
Member
Neva.
What is the best way to begin to get women to the range? Unlike Skunk, Twoblink and others I am not into the social scene and most women I meet and work with are (gasp) saleswomen. My stereotype of saleswomen is not really complementary and I feel like they need a lot of coaching to be serious and safe on the range. Again, the one on one time needed there might cause marital stress.
I now avoid mentioning firearms at customer sites (except PIXAR where the admin is a new shooter--and pan-Asian) as my manager was asked by one lady at a large company to make sure I was never sent to the site again. I do believe this was because I mentioned that I would be competing in the International Revolver Championship match.
Once women are at the range I try to make the experience as positive as possible with the hopes they will not only come back, but will be excited enough to bring a friend. Unfortuantely most women are accompanied by boyfriends, many of whom are macho clods. I always have to make sort of like a ventriloquist with guess who as the dummy to pass along information to the female visitor without stepping on the male egos.
Gary H,
I hate PC too and am using it in a sarcastic way. Mind control mantras make me want to
On the other hand, when dealing with people it is necessary to use vocabulary they understand in order to communicate effectively.
What is the best way to begin to get women to the range? Unlike Skunk, Twoblink and others I am not into the social scene and most women I meet and work with are (gasp) saleswomen. My stereotype of saleswomen is not really complementary and I feel like they need a lot of coaching to be serious and safe on the range. Again, the one on one time needed there might cause marital stress.
I now avoid mentioning firearms at customer sites (except PIXAR where the admin is a new shooter--and pan-Asian) as my manager was asked by one lady at a large company to make sure I was never sent to the site again. I do believe this was because I mentioned that I would be competing in the International Revolver Championship match.
Once women are at the range I try to make the experience as positive as possible with the hopes they will not only come back, but will be excited enough to bring a friend. Unfortuantely most women are accompanied by boyfriends, many of whom are macho clods. I always have to make sort of like a ventriloquist with guess who as the dummy to pass along information to the female visitor without stepping on the male egos.
Gary H,
I hate PC too and am using it in a sarcastic way. Mind control mantras make me want to
On the other hand, when dealing with people it is necessary to use vocabulary they understand in order to communicate effectively.
BobCat
Member
Of four new members at an orientation I held after the match Saturday, we had two middle-aged white guys, one Black police detective, and a Jewish guy (head orgainzer at temple - as membership director I see where people work). So - including me, that's at least two Jews in the club (and there really are more, I just can't think of individuals offhand).
One of the highest-scoring shooters in our 60-shot prone match is a gray-haired lady who just joined last year. She shot a 600-44X at a recent match - perfect score, and 44 out of 60 in the X ring, at 300 yards prone. Way to go, Grace!
While I strongly agree we need more people of all (ethnic?) backgrounds, I'm more concerned that we have too few young people. The average age of people on the line at the Highpower match at our club is probably 55. Maybe the younger people just don't care for Highpower.... I hope they're involved, just shooting IDPA or something more modern.
Purrrs,
BobCat
One of the highest-scoring shooters in our 60-shot prone match is a gray-haired lady who just joined last year. She shot a 600-44X at a recent match - perfect score, and 44 out of 60 in the X ring, at 300 yards prone. Way to go, Grace!
While I strongly agree we need more people of all (ethnic?) backgrounds, I'm more concerned that we have too few young people. The average age of people on the line at the Highpower match at our club is probably 55. Maybe the younger people just don't care for Highpower.... I hope they're involved, just shooting IDPA or something more modern.
Purrrs,
BobCat
atek3
Member
I live in the bay area...a VERY diverse place. The ranges I shoot at are mostly OWM's (old white men). There is this one AA who shoots benchrest. The Highpower matches I go to have one hispanic and maybe 2 asians. IPSC seems a bit better, 3 asians maybe. The public line seems to attract a more diverse audience, however, none of the 'diverse' elements seem to have any interest in training or competition, of course neither do the whites so I guess that isn't a valid estimate of anything.
atek3
so I guess that isn't a valid estimate of anything.atek3
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Guy B. Meredith
Member
atek3,
Which range do you frequent?
Which range do you frequent?
atek3
Member
most but richmond and chabot mainly
Typhoon
Member
Well, I took a colleague from work last weekend to the range (happens to be Chinese...) for the second time.
First time, she did well with my 9mm Beretta. This time (heeding the advise that newbies should start small) I rented a .22. She shot well with it, but thought it was BOORING!!!.
Loved the Springfield 1911, though... Shot it well...
Another convert... Yeah...
Friends are where you find them...
Andrea
twoblink
Member
If you want to see more women at the range...
YOU BRING THEM!!
YOU BRING THEM!!
Cliff
Member
Last night I finished up the first part of a basic pistol class. The class consisted of two black males, two black females. They were hanging on every word, enjoyed the class immensely. Besides the basic mechanics of pistol shooting, they were introduced to a bit of the gun culture regarding different types of pistols,2A/RKBA issues, and the responsibilities of being a gunowner,the shooting sports, and overall dispelling all the myths they had heard and seen on TV and the movies.
Range qualifications will be this coming Sunday and all four students are pumped. All four will be joining our club, at least 3 will be joining the NRA, and I firmly believe 3 out of the 4 will become active shooters. Looking forward to seeing that s**t eating grin come over their faces when they take that first shot.
When we started the class the evening before, their main overall purpose was personal protection. By the time we finished last night, they had been exposed to a whole wide world they had never seen or heard of before.
Three more NRA members who JUST HAPPEN to be black. I'm just happy to do my job in getting more PEOPLE exposed to what we do, and what we are in a positive way.
Range qualifications will be this coming Sunday and all four students are pumped. All four will be joining our club, at least 3 will be joining the NRA, and I firmly believe 3 out of the 4 will become active shooters. Looking forward to seeing that s**t eating grin come over their faces when they take that first shot.
When we started the class the evening before, their main overall purpose was personal protection. By the time we finished last night, they had been exposed to a whole wide world they had never seen or heard of before.
Three more NRA members who JUST HAPPEN to be black. I'm just happy to do my job in getting more PEOPLE exposed to what we do, and what we are in a positive way.
BerettaNut92
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If anything, Asians are over-represented in the shooting sports. At IPSC I have to shoot with the White guys because I don't speak Tagalog
As for being a Hyphenated-American, I describe myself as a Chinese-American. Chinese = adjective. American = noun.
It's like saying I carry a two-tone 9mm Beretta. The thing that matters is it's a Beretta, but I'm just being more descriptive so you have a better idea of what it is.
If society were colorblind all our guns would be matte black Diversity = two-tone here, carbon fiber there, titanium here....
The weirdest thing about shooting is I found out that the only place you'll see an equal number of white guy/Asian girl and Asian guy/White girl couples is at the shooting range. I have no clue why--I'm a computer technician, not a sociologist
Typhoon, which range do you shoot at??? Are you the Andrea with the old school blued Beretta with the heel release???
As for being a Hyphenated-American, I describe myself as a Chinese-American. Chinese = adjective. American = noun.
It's like saying I carry a two-tone 9mm Beretta. The thing that matters is it's a Beretta, but I'm just being more descriptive so you have a better idea of what it is.
If society were colorblind all our guns would be matte black
Diversity = two-tone here, carbon fiber there, titanium here.... The weirdest thing about shooting is I found out that the only place you'll see an equal number of white guy/Asian girl and Asian guy/White girl couples is at the shooting range. I have no clue why--I'm a computer technician, not a sociologist
Typhoon, which range do you shoot at??? Are you the Andrea with the old school blued Beretta with the heel release???
RangerHAAF
Member
Nurturing overcoming nature
Black, NRA-Benefactor Life members, like myself, who actually attend NRA conventions are as rare as hens teeth.
I grew up in small town Alabama. As a young boy I hunted birds and squirrels with BB guns, pellet guns and 22 rifles. I grew up in the 1970's and The President that made the most impression on me and my peers was Ronald Reagan; who radiated common sense and pragmatism. Most of my school peers(both black and white) were at least exposed to the shooting sports by the men of their respective families; grandfathers, uncles, fathers or family friends.
For example, I use to go with my grandfather to run his rabbit dogs in the country, now today very few men that I know still hunt rabbits. The environment that supported rabbits changed from where there used to be a lot of vegatable farming going on to one where the main type of farming was and is cotton farming. Most of the children( my uncles who are in their late 50's and early 60's) of these farmers moved to the big cities like Atlanta to pursue jobs and homes and have basically forgotten where they came from.
In general, most black males have never had the experiences that I have because they have been raised by their mothers in an urban environment in single parent homes where there is no concept or tradition with rifles or hunting. I was fortunate to have men in my family who took an interest in and nurtured my childhood development towards hunting, an appreciation of the woods and outdoors, and the importance of the 2nd Amendment.
I think that the desire to hunt and kill for sport is embedded in all young boys but the circumstances that lead to the development and practice of this desire is held in check by the environment that young men grow up in.
The problem here is nurturing definitely overcoming nature. The desire is there but the chances to act on it are not.
Black, NRA-Benefactor Life members, like myself, who actually attend NRA conventions are as rare as hens teeth.
I grew up in small town Alabama. As a young boy I hunted birds and squirrels with BB guns, pellet guns and 22 rifles. I grew up in the 1970's and The President that made the most impression on me and my peers was Ronald Reagan; who radiated common sense and pragmatism. Most of my school peers(both black and white) were at least exposed to the shooting sports by the men of their respective families; grandfathers, uncles, fathers or family friends.
For example, I use to go with my grandfather to run his rabbit dogs in the country, now today very few men that I know still hunt rabbits. The environment that supported rabbits changed from where there used to be a lot of vegatable farming going on to one where the main type of farming was and is cotton farming. Most of the children( my uncles who are in their late 50's and early 60's) of these farmers moved to the big cities like Atlanta to pursue jobs and homes and have basically forgotten where they came from.
In general, most black males have never had the experiences that I have because they have been raised by their mothers in an urban environment in single parent homes where there is no concept or tradition with rifles or hunting. I was fortunate to have men in my family who took an interest in and nurtured my childhood development towards hunting, an appreciation of the woods and outdoors, and the importance of the 2nd Amendment.
I think that the desire to hunt and kill for sport is embedded in all young boys but the circumstances that lead to the development and practice of this desire is held in check by the environment that young men grow up in.
The problem here is nurturing definitely overcoming nature. The desire is there but the chances to act on it are not.
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Tom Bri
Member
A Black guy hunts my Dad's farm every fall. I don't know how they hooked up. I think he is bow hunting, not gun. But there are certainly some around if you look.
What RangerHAAF said is true of single moms. They do have their hands full, but the bigger issue is where they live. Those in the cities, where you will find most of them, just only have the negative aspect of the firearm taught to them by the streets and the media. Those who chose to stay in the country, well as they say.....country folk will be country folk. They live in the traditional gun culture area where hunting is the norm for sport or necessacity. Just about every country boy is waiting on the start of hunting season, while those in the cities haven't the first idea that a season actually exist.
It is those who live in the cities that we have to expose to the real world of firearms. The larger the city, ususally the less they have of any positive exposure.
I for one am glad that others reconize this and this thread may open some eyes. I knew some had experienced blacks shooting, but like I posted earlier, you have to be in their inner circle or see them afield. Others I would figure just wouldn't have the opportunity to observe this. You just won't see a lot of blacks showing up at formal shooting ranges. If you could have an informal range somewhere out in the country you would probably draw a much larger number of black shooters. If there was a way to ease the tension and show that they are truly welcomed at the range then the numbers may change. I have taken many to the range. In time they enjoyed themselves, but very few would actually go back unless they knew I would be there also. The trick is to change the mindset, but I have no idea on how to accomplish that even though I still try. Hopefully this thread will come up with ideas and suggestions that could possibly work.
It is those who live in the cities that we have to expose to the real world of firearms. The larger the city, ususally the less they have of any positive exposure.
I for one am glad that others reconize this and this thread may open some eyes. I knew some had experienced blacks shooting, but like I posted earlier, you have to be in their inner circle or see them afield. Others I would figure just wouldn't have the opportunity to observe this. You just won't see a lot of blacks showing up at formal shooting ranges. If you could have an informal range somewhere out in the country you would probably draw a much larger number of black shooters. If there was a way to ease the tension and show that they are truly welcomed at the range then the numbers may change. I have taken many to the range. In time they enjoyed themselves, but very few would actually go back unless they knew I would be there also. The trick is to change the mindset, but I have no idea on how to accomplish that even though I still try. Hopefully this thread will come up with ideas and suggestions that could possibly work.
Typhoon
Member
Nyet, Skunkabilly, the Beretta in question is a 92FS stainless w/ black Hogue grips and Trijicon sights.
The range in question was LAX range last Friday evening. My colleague and I had a NetWare to Windows conversion that night, so we put in a bit of shooting time before work. Does wonders for stress...
Still trying to get her to call Brett for an ITTS class. I may succeed someday...
Re: RangerHAAF and the nature vs. nurture argument...
Just from a personal perspective, had I not had the influence of my Dad, Granddad and various other cousins, etc. it is likely that I would have not been too receptive to shooting.
Values are learned...
Andrea
Cyberdyne systems
Member
the part of California where I live has a lot of East Indian & Pakistani people, also lots of Hispanic farm workers, but I have never ever seen an Indian or Pakistani at the shooting range?? but I have seen Hispanics at the range, but not often, usually only during hunting season, I have only seen Blacks at the range maybe 2 or 3 tmes in the last 20 years? but the Black community is small in my area, except from the local Military installation, but they dont go to the range.
I do see lots HMONG immigrants at the range, they seem to like guns a lot?
they usually like hunting firearms. Probably because they were hunters back home in Laos?
I do see lots HMONG immigrants at the range, they seem to like guns a lot?
they usually like hunting firearms. Probably because they were hunters back home in Laos?
My local club seems to have a number of black members, but not a lot of them participate heavily in the organized events. Our USPSA events do get a number of regular and enthusiastic black participants, but they are USPSA members and not club members.
We do get a LOT of asian participation though. Interest there seems to be USPSA and Steel Challenge, then smallbore. We also get a resonable number of hispanic folks.
females are probably the least represented in events, minority females are practically non-existant at events. (I'd say non-existant, but I don't get out to all of the organized events)
As for club politics, well anyone but white guys over 45 are REAL scarce there.
The closest parallel I can thnk of in makeup besides age and the number of women is test and tune night at our local drag racing establishment.
We do get a LOT of asian participation though. Interest there seems to be USPSA and Steel Challenge, then smallbore. We also get a resonable number of hispanic folks.
females are probably the least represented in events, minority females are practically non-existant at events. (I'd say non-existant, but I don't get out to all of the organized events)
As for club politics, well anyone but white guys over 45 are REAL scarce there.
The closest parallel I can thnk of in makeup besides age and the number of women is test and tune night at our local drag racing establishment.
I have never met a black man (or woman) that seemed interested enough in shooting to invite to some kind of formal match. I certainly know black people that own firearms and have invited them to shoot with me although none have taken me up on it. This doesn't surprise me and has nothing to do with race: I invite people to shoot all the time and very few ever take me up on it. If they don't want to just go out and shoot, it would surprise me that they would want to compete.
Asians on the other hand are seen all the time at the various shooting events I attend. They seem to love shooting and firearms as much as anyone else and they are very active in competitive action pistol shooting.
I see very few women at the shooting events I participate in, but a few do show up and do quite well.
The bottom line is that they are welcome to attend and don't. That doesn't make them different from millions of other people out there that don't participate in formal shooting competition. In fact I am sure the majority of people on this board who are firearms enthusiests don't.
Asians on the other hand are seen all the time at the various shooting events I attend. They seem to love shooting and firearms as much as anyone else and they are very active in competitive action pistol shooting.
I see very few women at the shooting events I participate in, but a few do show up and do quite well.
The bottom line is that they are welcome to attend and don't. That doesn't make them different from millions of other people out there that don't participate in formal shooting competition. In fact I am sure the majority of people on this board who are firearms enthusiests don't.
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Guy B. Meredith
Member
444,
You are probably correct in many ways. I am not so sure about the gun ownership around the SF Bay area amongst non elite liberals--at least not overt.
It is certainly not necessary to compete to support firearms freedom, but in particular each bullseye shooter, PPC shooter, bench rest, CAS, youth rifle, or any other low testoterone recreation gives us valuable visibility and credibility as 'just plain folk' worth protecting when laws are made.
Helps keep down the tendency towards the bigotry that we are part of a criminal or dangerous element.
You are probably correct in many ways. I am not so sure about the gun ownership around the SF Bay area amongst non elite liberals--at least not overt.
It is certainly not necessary to compete to support firearms freedom, but in particular each bullseye shooter, PPC shooter, bench rest, CAS, youth rifle, or any other low testoterone recreation gives us valuable visibility and credibility as 'just plain folk' worth protecting when laws are made.
Helps keep down the tendency towards the bigotry that we are part of a criminal or dangerous element.
Monkeyleg
Member.
As far as I know, there are absolutely no black members of the gun club I belong to. The racist mentality of many of the members probably has much to do with that.
However, at the indoor ranges here in the city, blacks and Hispanics make up nearly 50% of the shooters. And I'm not talking "gangsta" types, but many serious shooters who know their gear.
Most are in their twenties or thirties, although I do see some people closer to my age (53), which may validate a point raised earlier about disposable income amongst younger minorities.
Given that Milwaukee is one of the most segregated cities in the country, I suspect that minority shooters may be a bit uncomfortable venturing out into the lilly-white suburbs to shoot outdoors.
However, at the indoor ranges here in the city, blacks and Hispanics make up nearly 50% of the shooters. And I'm not talking "gangsta" types, but many serious shooters who know their gear.
Most are in their twenties or thirties, although I do see some people closer to my age (53), which may validate a point raised earlier about disposable income amongst younger minorities.
Given that Milwaukee is one of the most segregated cities in the country, I suspect that minority shooters may be a bit uncomfortable venturing out into the lilly-white suburbs to shoot outdoors.
Based on my experiences, many THR'ers seem to be of Asian decent.
As much as I hate to say "we should include _____ because of their skin color," we should try to get more blacks involved wherever possible, as it would in fact be advantageous to us politically.
Eeeewww.....*shudder* I feel so slimy for having said what I just said.
Is that bad?
Yuck...I'm gonna go shower...BRB
As much as I hate to say "we should include _____ because of their skin color," we should try to get more blacks involved wherever possible, as it would in fact be advantageous to us politically.
Eeeewww.....*shudder* I feel so slimy for having said what I just said.
Is that bad?
Yuck...I'm gonna go shower...BRB
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