Laser Cast Bullets for 45-70 trapdoor?

[Stormin.40]

I have a well meaning father would sent me a lot of laser cast 405gr FP bullets for my 45-70, these are sized to .459 but have a beveled base and my guess are made of hard alloy.

Does anyone have experience with these in a blackpowder rifle? I plan to load then in an original trapdoor and this will be my first try loading BP catridges. I have already asked the manufacturer what lube they use and what BHN the alloy is to see if it is worth trying. I am thinking that I may have to remove their lube and replace with BP lube.

 

[45-70 Ranger]

Don't think you'll be happy

Those bullets are hard cast and the lube they use is a hard lube that will be worthless with black powder. If it were me, I'd thank my dad and cast me some soft alloy bullets and lube them with the proper lube for BP cartridge. If you load them as they are, you will not be happy with how they perform.

Just my two cents worth of shooting this cartridge for nearly fifty years....

Wade

 

[gunboat57]

Hard cast bullets did not work well in my original trapdoor rifle. But they did work well in my Buffalo Classic with smokeless powder.

How many did he give you?

 

[Jim Watson]

I think it would be a waste of time and powder, even if relubed..

They MIGHT shoot ok with suitable light smokeless loads but even at .459" are pretty small for a Trapdoor.

 

[BCRider]

Then there's also the obvious Faux Pas of using ANYTHING associated with the term "Laser" with a proper old black powder firearm.....

 

[FiveStrings]

What Jim Watson said...to start shooting with accuracy your original trapdoor is probably going to need something in the neighborhood of a .461 bullet.

 

[StrawHat]

Or you could slug your bore and find out waht it needs to make it happy. Unfortunately, the Springfield Arsenal was a bit lenient with the bores on the rifles they built (so were Sharps and Remington) and relied on the hollow base and black powder to obturate the slug into the bore.

There are custom casters who will supply you with soft cast bullets. Best to get them unsized and see if they work as cast. Easier to size down, back up is a lot harder. A good BP lube is essential but easier to make or buy.

The diameter is more important than the alloy.

 

[fineredmist]

I am pleased with the results I get with the Lazer Cast in my Uberti High Wall using 5744 powder, however the results were disappointing whet I used them with holy black. I was told to change the lube but I decided that it was not worth the effort so I use custom cast with the black and the results are more to my liking.

 

[Stormin.40]

Thank guys, you confirmed my fears. My neighbor who I shoot with sometimes has a Marlin Lever action 45-70 that these would work perfect in. Unfortunelty he rarely shoots his Marlin and probably doesn't want these, I could ask anyway?

I have 500, maybe I can find someone local to trade with or sell.

 

[artee]

On the Marlin '95--If its one of the earlier years, 1972 -80+ (to whenever Ballard rifling was reintroduced and the microgrove dropped, maybe the 1990s) then they won't be much good either. It takes a .460 usually to start shooting well in them, .459 is right on the edge and likely is dependant on alloy hardness and how "hard" the initial boot in the butt is. A fast sharp jab by a pistol or shotgun powder in a reduced load might make them shoot OK in the early barrels. I have no experience with the ballard rifling, but got my first Marlin 95 in '74.

 

[Curator]

If you are shooting the "Holy Black" try a load of 55 grains of FFFg and 15 grains (measure) of Cream of Wheat cereal on top of the powder. The cereal compacts and prevents gas-leakage around the bullet and allows for pretty good accuracy and reduced recoil. This works particularly good in older Trapdoor Springfields.