Laser grips for my 1911

[Girlwithagun]

Ok, I am thinking of getting laser grips for my baby (Springfield 1911 MILSPEC). I read older posts on this subject and decided I liked the Crimson Trace ones best from what I read, but I still have some questions I didn't see answered in previous posts.
If it makes any difference, I use this gun for target shooting but it is also my home defense gun.

1) What does it take to set them up? Is it as simple as putting them on and I am good to go? I doubt that but it would be nice.

2) Is the felt recoil affected by replacing the grip? If so, is it greater or less?

3) Regular or wraparound? Just a matter of preference or is one better than the other for any reason?

4) Any other info you can add that may help me decide whether to buy these? I love my baby soooo much and I hate to spend all this money on the laser grip and then not like it.

 

[Preacherman]

1. Setup: Simply take the old grips off and put the new ones on. To align the laser with the sights, take a sight picture on a clearly defined point and activate the laser. Adjust the beam so that the beam intersects with the sight picture at the distance you've chosen (adjustment is done via two tiny hex-head screws, for which an Allen wrench is provided with the grips). Alternatively, do the Mas Ayoob thing of working out the horizontal and vertical distance between the centerline of your barrel and the laser, and adjust it so that it will always point at the target at the same distance, horizontally and vertically, from the muzzle. This has the advantage that you know at any range where the bullet path will be, and you can allow for bullet drop more easily - but it's more difficult to become accustomed to it.

2. To me, felt recoil is no different.

3. Personally, I prefer regular to wraparound grips: however, others differ. Try them in your hand and see.

4. Look around online to get the best prices. I've seen the 1911 grips at prices ranging from $199 to $299.

 

[silent one]

Girlwithagun,

If I were you, I would go to a gun store, or to your range, and ask if you could try a weapon with lazer grips. You don't have to shoot it, just aim at a given target and activate the lazer. You may be surprised at what you see. Unless you are rock steady, that beam will be dancing all over the target. Now remember, you're doing this in a relaxed controlled situation. Imagine where that beam is going to be during a life threatening situation.

Personally, I think you would be better off shooting with regular night sights, and depend on your abilities, rather than getting a sense of security from a device that might not work when you need it, or it may be out of adjustment, etc,etc. I remember back a few years when lazers were the rage. A lot of shooters on the range had them. Now most of those same shooters are either using red dots, or open sights.

As I stated earlier, try before you buy. Who knows, you may love lazers. Then again, you may not. You could always use the money you saved and put it towards another baby, and have twice the fun.

good luck, and be safe.


SILENT ONE

 

[longeyes]

I put a set of the Crimson Trace grips on my Sistema. You change the grips and you're good to go; yes, it's that simple. No difference in recoil. How you adjust the sights is up to you but they will only be right on at one distance, so that's something to consider. I wouldn't rely on the laser but it's a nice thing to have, just in case. It will definitely make clear to you how steady, or unsteady, your aim really is.

I got the "regular" grips because I liked the look better. However, if I were doing it again, and I may, for a different gun, I'd get the wrap-around. Why? Because with the regular grips it is sometimes hard to depress the activator switch (on the right grip), especially if you are shooting one-handed, and that means you may not get the constant laser beam you want. If you can possibly try both versions you'll see what I mean.

 

[bubbygator]

The other method for sighting is to ignore the iron sights. Shoot to the bullseye with the laser spot only - then look at your pattern to see how far off you are. Adjust the laser to bring it to the center of your group... simply move the laser spot to where-ever the group center is using the adjustments. Then shoot another group to see how good your adjustment was. You can do this several times until the laser spot exactly coincides with your pattern center.

Then...... look at the laser spot through your iron sights - and see how far off your iron sights were... and you didn't know it.

If you can wait awhile, Crimson Trace is about to release their new 4xx series <--(click) which are wrap-around with a front-strap activation button like the revolver models. This is an extremely intuitive grip-activation.

 

[P95Carry]

Girlwithagun .. hi again ... (great to meet you at the shoot last weekend)

I cannot comment on grip for autos but will say this. On my SP-101 and M28-2 they are superb. Sure, you see a seemingly catastrophic ''wobble factor'' but that really is no more than using iron sights -- it just makes it rather apparent!!

CT's are IMO the best out there ... the adjustment takes a little while but is not hard to do ... you just keep moving the adjustment toward the last bullet strike, until the shots go to the dot!

I would never say thay are a replacement at all, for iron sights ......... they are an adjunct. If however you needed the piece in very poor light - plus not being able to bring it up to eyes for sighting ... then you have IMO a potent tool at hand.

I have not seen the new grips bubbygator referred to but if they have the attributes of my revo grips then oh my - you are gonna LOVE them! Let us know what you decide to do and how you like them if you go ahead.

 

[45crittergitter]

You always want the dot the same horizontal distance from POI; never crossing, because otherwise the POI and dot are diverging past the sight-in range. It will never align due to the sight not being directly over (or under) the bore. Horizontally, you do not get the benefit of the vertical parabolic trajectory of the bullet to play with, crossing the sight line twice. Sight for vertical POI as normal at your preferred distance, but leave the dot off to the side the same amount as it is at the gun. This is only an issue with offset-mounted sights like lasergrips, not with the under-barrel type. Hope that's clear.

 

[P95Carry]

45crittergitter .... you make a very valid point ... one I wrestled with early on.

I do tho still set up for POI to coincide with dot . usually 7-10 yds .... working on the basis that this gets the accuracy good within what might be called ''normal fighting range'' ..... after that I tend to feel that a longer distance shot .. should it be needed .. would be a slightly slower and more deliberate using irons anyways.

The offset on my revo grips is approx 3/4" to right of bore axis .. quite a small amount. Excellent point tho.

 

[M2 Carbine]

45crittergitter, all you have to do is sight the laser at 30 or 40 yards and you will be on a man sized target from point blank to, I'de guess 60 yards or better.
I'll stick the Model 60 in a pocket when I'm out at night checking the place.
Around my house a 50 yard night shot at prowler, man or coyote, could be necessary.


I've got the CT lazer on a Kimber, S&W Mod 60 and a S&W Mod 10.

If they made it for the Makarov I'de have it on a couple of them.

They adjust easy and HOLD the adjustment.

The batteries are cheap but I've yet to change a set.

Using a laser takes practice, just like any other shooting.
Some people have trouble getting used to having "two triggers". It seems in their mind when they "trigger" the lazer they have shot the gun.
A couple friends have this problem and they haven't shot it enough to get used to the one, two drill.

As a night gun it can't be beat.

The CT power is amazing. At night I've shown it to friends, tell them them to step outside and anything they can see the lazer will illuminate.
Not that you are going to shoot a pistol to a thousand yards.

You ought to see the light show it puts on at night in fog, drizzle or low clouds (I'll never grow up )

 

[Girlwithagun]

Thank you for your help. I will keep you posted on what I decide to do.

 

[bodu]

Have you considered the LaserMax? It replaces the guide rod, or lack there of. I have had much sucess with them on several different types of autoloaders. I personally just think that the Crimson Trace grips are ugly. With a LaserMax, you can have any style grips you want. Just a suggestion.
B

 

[P95Carry]

Are not the LaserMax lower intensity? And I thought someone said they were pulsed too. Maybe they are worth a look for auto's but I would find it hard to think of a better laser grip for revo's than CT's anyways ...... nothing ugly about them at all .. and intensity and focus is superb.

 

[bodu]

P95,
They are pulsed, but it has never bothered me. As for intensity, they are plenty intense enough to light up someone's chest accross my bedroom (as bright as my M6's). Isn't that the point? As I said, it is my OPINION that the CT grips are ugly. I would much rather have fine wood or micarta on my handguns than black plastic.
B

 

[yzguy]

I love the wrap around style on my 1911:

I liked the activation buttons on each side better, plus the little added bump on the front strap helps me with grip.

I really don't put much effort into the whole discussion about how to zero it. Zero it for 30 feet. At closer distances it will only be off by less than an inch up and left, that will still hit com easily from 0-30 feet. It is true that at further than 30 feet, the laser will start to diverge from the bullet path, but I can't hold it steady enough for it to be useful at that distance, nor will I be taking a self defense shot at that distance.

I can also personally shoot much faster with the laser than with sights even though I have much more practice with the irons.

For me it was between the laser max and the laser grips, but the laser max does not have any adjustments, requires it to be turned on/off (not by natural grip), and the lenses can fog up while shooting (look at all the powder residue on the end of your gun after shooting). Not terrible flaws, but just little things that put CT out in front for me.

 

[bountyhunter]

You don't have to shoot it, just aim at a given target and activate the lazer. You may be surprised at what you see. Unless you are rock steady, that beam will be dancing all over the target.

Exactly, which leads to "dot dazzle" which is a kind of paralyzing hypnosis that sets in and convinces your mind that you are not aiming your gun correctly. The laser sights most effective use is by LE's who want loud mouthed and agressive people to get religion when they see a dot on their chest. As an aiming system, it's usefullness in combat is questioned by many and the only thing all agree on: the red laser gives your opponent a perfect target to aim at in low light. I second the vote for night sights.

 

[45crittergitter]

I heard that someone (Lasermax?) now has a green one that looks much, much brighter (green being more visible to the human eye). Anyone know anything about it?

 

[fix]

The thing most people overlook when discussing the viability of visible lasers is the same thing they overlook when discussing red dot sights in general. Target focus. Eliminate the need to focus on the sights, and you can focus on the target (as you will naturally anyway) rather than fighting your instincts. That is the single greatest advantage. As far as making yourself a target is concerned, you don't have to turn it on until you're ready to use it. No different than a white light, which is considered essential to low light gunfighting by anyone who is worth listening to.

 

[P95Carry]

the red laser gives your opponent a perfect target to aim at in low light.

Target Bounty yeah but ''perfect'' ... not necessarily. The one big bonus of the grips is the ability to aim and shoot without bringing the gun up to head .. it can be to one side. Not necessarily over your most vulnerable mass.

Plus ... unless the BG has sophisticated sights in low light .. who's to say he can ''home in'' on that red dot with total accuracy.

I think it's a bit ''win some - lose some'' .. on balance I'll risk being a better target - for the advantage I have over MY sighting.

 

[bountyhunter]

The thing most people overlook when discussing the viability of visible lasers is the same thing they overlook when discussing red dot sights in general. Target focus. Eliminate the need to focus on the sights, and you can focus on the target (as you will naturally anyway) rather than fighting your instincts. .

True, and I preach target focus sighting for ANY combat scenario to anybody who will listen even when using iron sights. It's very easy to use both eyes (locked on target) and indirectly sight the gun along the dominant eye. The sights are blurry, but easily visible. The added field vision of having both eyes on target is invaluable.

As far as making yourself a target is concerned, you don't have to turn it on until you're ready to use it. No different than a white light, which is considered essential to low light gunfighting by anyone who is worth listening to.

I'm not turning on my flashlight in a dark room if I think somebody may be drawing down on me. I will use point and shoot and still hit within 3" of POA at a range up to eight yards without aiming without even looking for the sights. I won't fire without a dfinite target, but I'm not going to make myself one in the process.

A big problem I have with a laser compared to night sights is that you have to "find the dot" by taking your eyes off the target to pick up the dot. With night sights, the gun will come up automatically into line of sight and I will align it without ever taking sight off the target.

 

[bountyhunter]

Plus ... unless the BG has sophisticated sights in low light .. who's to say he can ''home in'' on that red dot with total accuracy.

Well... I have a little laser toy that goes in the bore for holster practice. The first time I tried learning point and shoot, I found I was hitting within a few inches of my intended point (at eight yards) about 98% of the time with about five minutes of practice.... never missed by more than six inches. I suspect a lot of shooters could easily do this. get a Dry-Fire laser blaster and give it a try.