laser grips... what is the use case?

[Chris17404]

Hi all,

I was at a local gun shop today looking at a few handguns that come with the Crimson Trace laser grips on them. They're cool and all, but other than being able to "aim without aiming", what is the use case? In what real-life situations would they be a help or a hinderance? Who has first hand experience with them? Opinions... good or bad? Thanks.

Chris

 

[RustyShackelford]

uses for laser sights on protection duty sidearms

I had a Crimson Trace laser grip for my Taurus .357 Protector. I got the grip for several reasons;

1) In a critical incident you may need to fire at an awkward angle or one handed.
2) You may be wounded or hurt and unable to fire with a stable marksmanship type hold.
3) A bright laser dot may make a violent scumbag think twice before he charges at you in a rapid attack.
4) A laser sight on a duty sidearm or CC weapon makes criminals think you know a lot about weapons/tactics and are not worth the effort of fighting. Sworn LEOs know many street criminal don't want to deal with someone like that.

Rusty

 

[Dienekes]

I will play devil's advocate here. Had a set for J frame that I won from Crimson Trace--cost, nada. Put them on my wife's M37. She finally admitted that they weren't of much use to her and we sold them off.

Previously I ran night fire courses for LEOs when these things were just coming out. In every case officers who knew how to use a tactical flashlight did far better shooting much quicker than the laser fans. In the time that is devoted to lasering you can be shooting--and if you need a gun time is usually what yo have least of. They may have more utility in the military sphere but for police or civilian use I think they are vastly over-rated.

Lots of people will disagree with me but I know what works for me. I would much rather have a good tactical flashlight, and even tritiums are okay.

 

[P95Carry]

I have six sets - three on my SIG's and three on revo's - all guns I could carry tho my 226 is EDC.

I have old eyes and sighted shooting is ever more difficult - tho I always shoot as if no laser help.

That said, when light is low enough and dot is seen (automatically as you point) - it is invaluable IMO. As has been mentioned - shooting one handed for example round from cover - could be invaluable. Not so sure re deterrant effect - the only red the BG might see is the source on the gun.

Some say that could be used as an aim point - true - but if gun is to side as against in front of yourself - even that is not a major problem, added to which chances are when dot is visible, target aquistion will be much faster.

They are in my book an adjunct - never to be regarded as primary sighting tools only.

All my testing in range practice suggest they are for me a valuable addition - and I hope to never have to put them to the ''real'' test, ever.

 

[warwagon]

While I agree with almost everything said so far, the one problem I see over, and over is people trying to utilize them in lieu of proper training.

To my mind this is a huge mistake, as I see no alternative to good training, and handeling, and that only comes from putting many rounds down range.

Batteries may fail, switches may malfunction, but good handeling of the pistol will not fail you.

Best regards,
Blair

 

[M2 Carbine]

I've got 7 (good) lasers on defense pistols. If available I put a laser on every gun that might be used for defense.

In the few years that I've been using them it's become clear that, when used correctly, they are a very valuable additional shooting tool.

They aren't for everyone. I've seen experienced shooters that just can't get the hang of them.

It's a very simple concept. If used correctly a black hole will appear where the Red Dot is.
The catch is, just like the rest of the shooting skills, properly using a laser must be learned and practiced.

 

[pax]

Love them, but as others have noted, they're not a cure-all. If you yank the trigger without the laser, you'll yank it with the laser and your accuracy won't be any better. If you're slow and hesitant without the laser, you'll be slow and hesitant with it, possibly more so if you have a hard time processing new stuff.

But I think they're great, and I think they fill a niche that was far too empty before they came along.

More here and here.

pax

 

[Diamondback6]

With the advent recently of lasers other than red, I've thoughht they have some use in multiple-weapon scenarios too.

EXAMPLE from a recent article in a gun mag:
"Hostage scenario. You and your buddy both have red-dot lasers. One dot's on target, other on the hostage--who takes the shot?" If one of those was a green dot like in some new laser-pointers, it'd be a ded giveaway who's got the nod.

Or, for those of us with better-than-normal peripheral vision in a multi-threat environment, it would allow us to use a pair of weapons to more efficiently neutralize the threats.

Just a thought.

BTW, good write-ups, pax.

 

[cyanide]

With Crimson Trace sights if you go finger off trigger the laser will hit your finger be blocked from the target and light up your trigger finger.

Just more disdain for laser sights from me I guess.

 

[foob]

EXAMPLE from a recent article in a gun mag:
"Hostage scenario. You and your buddy both have red-dot lasers. One dot's on target, other on the hostage--who takes the shot?" If one of those was a green dot like in some new laser-pointers, it'd be a ded giveaway who's got the nod.

Just curious, why is there a dot on the hostage?

 

[meef]

Diamondback6:

EXAMPLE from a recent article in a gun mag:
"Hostage scenario. You and your buddy both have red-dot lasers. One dot's on target, other on the hostage--who takes the shot?" If one of those was a green dot like in some new laser-pointers, it'd be a ded giveaway who's got the nod.

foob:

Just curious, why is there a dot on the hostage?

Now that's an excellent question!

 

[cyanide]

LOL

 

[meef]

With Crimson Trace sights if you go finger off trigger the laser will hit your finger be blocked from the target and light up your trigger finger.

Ummm.....

Here's a really helpful suggestion.

Keep your finger from in front of the laser when it's off the trigger.

They work a whole lot better that way.

Using that concept, it hasn't a problem with my S&W.

 

[cyanide]

Here's a really helpful suggestion.

Keep your finger from in front of the laser when it's off the trigger.

They work a whole lot better that way.

Using that concept, it hasn't a problem with my S&W.

You mean change your grip to accommodate the sight ?

I think not......... bad tactics.

 

[meef]

You mean change your grip to accommodate the sight ?

I think not......... bad tactics.

Once my finger comes out of the trigger guard, my grip is changed.

I simply choose not to put my trigger finger in front of the laser while its out of the guard.

I honestly don't see the problem.....

 

[cyanide]

Hey cool

If it works for you that is great

I was just expressing some of my experiences with them



Heck I'm sure there are many more out there that like them and that is fine with me.

After all it is just my opinion.

 

[XavierBreath]

Cyanide, looks like that certification expired in the year 2000.

FWIW, I rely on iron sights. Nice black iron sights. I like to keep it simple. If I can't align irons on the BG, then I need better tactics. To me, a laser seems to be one more trick in the bag that a better tactic could replace. Iron sights work. If you can't hit your target with irons, a laser ain't going to guide your bullets in. I don't need any more switches to monkey with in a fight for my life. A couple of my pistols still have night sights, but I have begun to feel the same about them as well. Maybe it's just crumundgeonism creeping in, I don't know........

I recently bought a SW1911 with Crimson Trace laser grips, and had the same experience as Cyanide. When I indexed my finger as I do on my other 1911s, it blocked the laser. I'm not going to change the way I train to accomodate a sighting system. I sold the grips online for $200.

I do still have a Crimson Trace laser grip on my Beretta 92. If I could get $200 for it, I probably would. My cat and dog loves it. Crimson Trace makes a good durable product. They do work great for dry fire practice. They just does not meet my needs as a shooter.

 

[cyanide]

Cyanide, looks like that certification expired in the year 2000.

It stayed current till I retired .

5 years ago.

However ----------

You can have a new caliber

You can have new composites that make up the firearm

You can have different sights

The one constant that will never change is how to fire a firearm accurately --- technique.

Now you can have new combat techniques

but the firing of the firearm will never change due to the laws of physics , they are a constant.

Grip
sight picture
trigger pull
breath control
the ZEN of shooting if you want to call it something.

 

[SmithShooter]

This topic is always a source for heated discussions and probably always will be. I have owned a SW642-2 with CT grips for over three years. I use them in conjunction with a Surefire flashlight. They have improved my shooting skills beyond what I had hoped they would. I can shoot while on the move or while the target is moving and score hits everytime. I won't leave home without them.

http://www.shootinggallery.tv/articles/publish/article_4.shtml

 

[RustyShackelford]

CrimsonTrace/laser sight training-open sights

A valid point that I did not make before was that any handgun owner would need to have good marksmanship with the sidearm's open sights. Laser sights(CT or Lasermax designs) are meant to augment the weapon's use. Trained LEO/military experts also inform new laser sight buyers of this important fact too.

Any handgun owner who buys any type of laser/white light unit should also shoot with open sights to know where they aim/hit the targets.

All the best;

RS

 

[jeepmor]

Wasn't there a LEO study done where lasers were good?

Didn't some department issue CT's with their service weapons and have their hit rates go up from the 60-70% range into the 90% range?

I read this somewhere, may have been internet noise, but I recall some department did this and it improved their hits on hostiles by 20-30% for their officers. I think that's pretty significant.

Sure, everyone likes what they like and their particular method. A red dot will not make you a super shot under stressful situations, but it will help. It may help you know your aim is truer, or it may show the BG exactly where you happen to be. It does not come without a cost IMO.

However, I would like them to offer one for my wife's Taurus PT111, it would greatly improve her shooting, because for the most part, she needs a shotgun for that kind of work, even then....

jeepmor

 

[PX15]

I am a senior citizen old fart... In ye olde distant past I was relatively accurate with my firearms, and my vision was great and no shaky hands..
Now as I ramble on down lifes highway on my way to the proverbial 3 score and 10 I find my vision has indeed declined, and my hands aren't so steady any longer. In other words, without help, I can't hit merde anymore.

In the early years of laser production it seems the bad rap. was they were too heavy, short battery life, and not always reliable. I honestly believe those days are long gone, and if you buy a QUALITY laser product you will more than likely be quite satisfied with it.

Some folks simply do not like change, no matter the product. If you are one of those people then no amount of satisfied customer testimony will change your mind. On the other hand, if you are openminded you might be a bit amazed at how far lasers have come.

My first Crimson Trace set of Lasergrips purchase came about when I was considering the purchase of "another" J-frame Smith. I already had two, plus three Colt D frame snubby's and I couldn't hit the black with any of them at any distance beyond the end of my arm.

I experienced a moment of clarity and instead of buying a 6th snubby I bought the CT Lasergrips.

When the lasergrips came and I put them on my model 49 Bodyguard the difference in my personal accuracy was the difference between night and day. I was shooting in broad daylight, at self defense range (5-7yds), and I could put 'em all in the black, or center mass of the target. In any lower lighting conditions the result was the same...

Now for those of you who say "at 5-7 yards I don't need no stinking laser" more power to ya.. But for me personally when my heart is racing, my adrenlin pumping, and a potential life threat is before me I want ALL the help I can get.....

The battery life on my CT Lasergrips is unbelievably good. The battery's aren't expensive and readily available almost anyplace. I change my batteries out yearly (just like the smoke alarms,etc) just because, NOT because they are weak. Crimson Trace has a website, and the customer service is excellent.

My 2nd set of CT Lasergrips was recently purchased for my Sig P239.. Same result. Wonderful addition to a fine firearm. (I get free batteries for life from CT with the Sig Lasergrips)

Apparently our military is using lasers in Iraq and Afganistan in a big way, and they are very popular with the soldiers.

I firmly believe that in the event of a deadly confrontation my eyes will indeed be glued to the threat... I won't be thinking of "iron sight picture", or anything else other than the theat. With the Ct Lasergrips you can watch the threat, place your arm in the direction of the threat, and the red dot will indeed show you where the poa would be should you pull the trigger at that moment.

I don't know about the "visual deterring" aspect of the red laser dot in a confrontation, but I shouldn't think it would be comforting to the aggressor.. To me the psychological impact of having a red dot shining on your chest should provide some reflection that otherwise might not be considered.

I'm so high on CT Lasergrips now that before I consider the purchase of another firearm for personal defense I check to see it there is indeed a CT product available for it. For me, CT Lasergrips are that good.....

I don't know about other manufacturers products, but I've read where LaserMax also makes a quality laser.

Lasers make a lot more sense to people who in the past were accurate but are inaccurate now because of health issues or just advancing age. I have no argument with those who for one reason or another do not care for lasers, that's their business.

Change sucks for old folks, but this computer sure beats my old Remington typewriter.... Fortunately change regarding lasers is still a personal choice.

Not trying to be confrontational, but I love my Lasergrips..

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

 

[M2 Carbine]

Excellent post J. Pomeroy.

One of my considerations in using the laser, also is declining eyesight. With glasses I can still do fair with iron sights and even better in low light or near darkness with the laser.
But what, for instance, if I can't find my glasses when I hear that bump in the night?
Without glasses, even if my pistol had night sights they would be usless.

So I thought I'd see how effective laser sighting would be in the fuzzy world.
As with most of my laser practice, it was faster and more accurate, even in a 25 knot cross wind.

 

[dairycreek]

While I agree with almost everything said so far, the one problem I see over, and over is people trying to utilize them in lieu of proper training.

To my mind this is a huge mistake, as I see no alternative to good training, and handeling, and that only comes from putting many rounds down range.

Warwagon makes a very valid point! But the use of laser sights ought not be considered an alternative to regular sighting but an addition to regular sighting and, if laser sights are used, should be incorporated into one's training regimen. Not either or but BOTH.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Warwagon makes a very valid point! But the use of laser sights ought not be considered an alternative to regular sighting but an addition to regular sighting and, if laser sights are used, should be incorporated into one's training regimen. Not either or but BOTH.

I was thinking, since this thread started, that I don't do enough practice with the lasers.
I've got lasers on seven guns, 2 Kel Tec PLR pistols, two S&W revolvers, FN 5.7 pistol, Kel Tec P3AT and a Kimber.

Even though I shoot almost every day I probably don't average using a laser once a week. I'll have to increase that. I like shooting when it's dark enough that the gun sights can't be seen.

I've got two Streamlight TLR-2 laser/lights. I thought the idea of a laser and light coming on at the same time was strange, but since using it, it's a great system. The target is lit, the gun is centered on target and can be kept on target without sighting through iron sights, and I still have a free hand if needed.