Latin American and .38 Super 1911 ?

[MatthewVanitas]

Recently saw the G&A cover on SA's .38 Super nickeled 1911. Neat looking piece, and reminded me of the Colt "El" Series I've seen in shops (El Toro, El Soldado, El Senador, etc).

Got me to thinking: what's the tie between the Latin South and .38 Super 1911s? I realize some nations have restrictions that keep folks from owning "military calibers", but is that all there is to it?
Is there any interesting historical trend or marketing policy which popularized the .38 Super 1911 in Latin America? Or is that partially just our perception or its supposed popularity?
Along those lines: was Colt's "El" series made for the export market and also sold stateside, or were they made for gringos who wanted a Latin-style pistola?
Are these .38s still popular down south, or did that change with the new guns coming onto the market?

In any case, it is a distinctive style, just brought up a lot of questions for me. Thanks for any info. -MV

 

[oscar]

For many years Mexico has outlawed "military calibers". Many people on both sides of the border carried the 38 super to get past this rule.

 

[Johnny Guest]

You got it, Matthew

At least, that's the explanation I always understood. Mexico ruled that private individuals could not own firearms chambered for "military cartridges" some time back. The Colt 1911 has always been popular on both sides of the border. The Super .38 was for many years the only other chambering for the 1911-type.

One author wrote of spending a lot of time on various projects in the Mexican hinterlands. This was not long after WWII. He was able to carry a sidearm, and greatly preferred the .45 ACP. His solution was to openly bring in a Super .38 on which he wore distinctive stag stocks. After being in an area for a while and becoming known to the local authorities, he'd get into his tool box and using "spare parts," install slide and barrel, change magazines, and voila! he'd have his .45, with no one the wiser.

Personally, I see a lot of potential problems with this story, but, hey, things were a bit more laid back in those days. Also, a yanqui dollar bill or silver dollar was worth a LOT of pesos . . . .

Interestingly, the 7 x 57 Mauser being the military rifle cartridge at the time, there were some problems for US sportsmen traveling to Mexico, when the 7 mm Remington Magnum became popular. In the mid-1970s, I had less trouble getting approval to take a National Match .45 into Tamulipas state than another guy had with his Model 700 in 7 RemMag.

Best,
Johnny

 

[LeonCarr]

Back in the late 80's when I worked the Sporting Goods counter at Wal-Mart, hispanic folks, most of whom looked like they just crossed over, would come in every other day asking for 38 Super ammo. Of course we did not carry it . If we would have, we could have made Sam Walton's children even richer than they are today .

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Gordon]

The REAL deal appears to be: the .38acp cartridge IS allowed by name AFTER you jump thru the expensive and corrupt hoops. The .38SUPER cartridge is NOT allowed however nobody knows the difference! After all you CAN shoot .38acp in a Super , it is just a +power. I checked all the loop holes and laws before I paid $300 to consolate for importation permit and $300 to local military Commandante for transportation permit for : 30-30 Marliin , 12gauge Ithaca mod 37, and .38 (marked on slide, in Spanish) Star model A, which happens to shoot 9mmANYTHING(yes it is tweaked) to put in an old safe on a Rancho that my wife owns . There is a caretaker who is beyond reproach who lives there and takes care of it and raises livestock ect besides the modest salary we pay him. Various members of our family go evry other month or so. I choose thes guns to be expendible and a viable battery. The caretaker has a LEAGALLY owned .22 model 1906 Winchester pump as his treasure.He also has a 32-20 Colt Army with no finish as his 'watchman gun'.I pay $150 a year to local cops for 'their good will and personal attention'. Hunters can get permits thru their 'guide' for temporary 'importation' real easy , but $500 or so for the 30 day period.

 

[Lone Star]

On www.smith-wessonforum.com we have a member named Manny, who lives in Vera Cruz. He has often complained about his official gun problems, and about a week ago, he noted that the only legal handgun calibers for civilians are the common pocket autos and the .38 Special. He specifically said that .38 Super is NOT allowed any longer. (.22 rimfire is legal.)

In the past, it was evidently popular in Latin America, and the box lid of an old Colt .38 Super Match (with fixed sights) that I once owned had both English and Spanish instructions printed in it. It was made about 1935.

The gun wouldn't shoot for sour apples, and this was before we knew that headspacing problems were at fault. I sold it. Alas, had I but known what an NRA Excellent Super Match grade would sell for today, I'd have kept it!

Lone Star

 

[Jim K]

Another reason is that a lot of Spanish guns in 9mm Largo were imported into South and Central America, and ammo was generally available. Guns chambered for .38ACP/.38 Super will usually chamber the 9mm Largo as well, though the reverse is not always true because of the rim on the .38's.

Jim