LCP vs Kel-Tec 3AT

[jon_in_wv]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Ybql8mDbs

Here is some of a recent range session with my LCP. I think it works just fine. The P3AT does have slightly taller sights than the LCP and the P3AT may use a harder steel slide than the LCP but for what its worth I really like my LCP.

(BTW. In the video, each time I was firing, the first magazine was fired from a P3AT magazine. It doesn't fit flush but it feeds just fine)

 

[orionengnr]

Having owned two P3ATs (a first gen and a second gen) and more recently an LCP, I vote LCP all the way.

Neither of my P3ATs were reliable (actually, if you do a search on my posts, you will find that none of my four KTs were reliable, despite many free replacement parts from KT, Fluff & Buff, etc).

My LCP has been flawless. Yes, it went back for the recall, and it still works just as well as it did before it's journey home and back.

As I grow older (50+), I am losing the ability to run quickly. As a result, my confidence in smaller calibers is diminishing and I'd rather carry a .45. My PM9 and LCP are currently safe queens. However, I may change my (perhaps feeble) mind tomorrow, and I trust both of them implicitly, or they would have been gone long ago (as the KTs are).

 

[distra]

I'd vote for the PF9 and skip the 380. A true 9mm that can easily be pocket carried.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Guns like the PF9 aren't really as viable for pocket carry as the LCP or a small revolver. I have pretty meaty mitts and getting hand with a PF9 out of my pocket takes a pretty big pocket. The LCP slips in and out with ease. The PF9 is pretty small though. I would be tempted but its too close in size to a real defensive pistol like my M&P 9C.

 

[kokapelli]

When firing both the KT P-3AT and the Ruger LCP The feed ramp on both pistols slams into the next round in the magazine creating a smilie in the bullet and frequently causing bullet setback.

Not a good thing that will cause an increase in pressure.

When Ruger copied the P-3AT the even copied the smilie problem.

If you want a pocket 380, get the Kahr P380 or the Micro Eagle or the just released Sig pocket 380 and avoid the possibility of a KaBoom.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I haven't seen that problem at all in my LCP. I've looked for it many times and it just hasn't happened in mine.

 

[kokapelli]

jon_in_wv I haven't seen that problem at all in my LCP. I've looked for it many times and it just hasn't happened in mine.

Clearly the problem does exist in the LCP. Here is a picture from another group showing the problem and the measured set back caused by the feed ramp impact on the next round in the magazine of the tester's LCP.

 

[ejfalvo]

Ive put about 250 rounds thru my LCP with no issues. Good enough to give me the confidence to carry the LCP.

 

[subierex]

I have nothing new to add. I have the LCP and once fondled the Kel-Tec. The Ruger is smoother to the touch. Other than that, I can say that the Ruger was surprisingly accurate for a minuscule gun that absolutely disappears in a pair of shorts.

I wear mine every day.

 

[MICHAEL T]

I vote KelTec I have one in pocket and wife is packing one at work . The have been relieable and we trust them.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Kokapelli, I said the problem hasn't shown up in mine. That is a fact. I didn't say it can't or doesn't happen to other people's LCP or KTs. What you show me or tell me about someone else's LCP is pretty irrelevant as I was commenting that it doesn't happen to MINE. The point being it isn't an issue for everyone.

The fact is people have whined and moaned and complained about this phenomena for years now and yet Kel-Tec and Ruger have sold, what, 100,000 of these things at LEAST? They aren't blowing up in people's hands. The issue is over hyped. Bullet setback can be an issue with any autoloader. Deal with it and get over it.

Quoted from an article on the issue at the KTRange:

One theoretically possible result of a Smiley is not good... it could result in a compressed powder charge. This could cause a simple malfunction at best, and a catastrophic failure complete with shooter injury at worst. Thankfully, no such malfunction has been reported yet, and general consensus appears to be that while occasionaly present, the setback of the bullet is insufficient to affect pressure levels to any significant degree.

 

[kokapelli]

jon_in_wv, you may not have noticed bullet smilies with your pistol, but the design flaw that causes the problem is there.

My point is that there are some very good 380 pocket pistols that do not have the smilie problem.

I personally have three P-3AT pistols and all three have the ramp produced smilie problem even after I did the ramp mod on two of them.

All three of my P-3ATs are reliable, but because of the bullet setback potential in the KT/Ruger design I won't use the hot Buffalo Bore ammo in them that I carry in my Micro Eagle.

 

[jon_in_wv]

No, I said mine does not exhibit that trait. That means I have actually looked to see if it does it. And it does not. The smileys issue is less of a design flaw than a design LIMITATION. You can't have a 9 ounce 380 that doesn't have a pretty quick recoil impulse. The issue as it is doesn't make it unsafe and I can hardly see paying double for a pistol for that reason. My LCP is safe, accurate, and disappears in my pocket.
I agree is it wise to avoid the really hot Buffalo Bore ammo in the P3 or LCP and use it in the heavier and steel framed Micro Eagle. With standard velocity ammo I don't think you have to worry but faster ammo may exacerbate the problem. I use standard velocity ammo and slower FMJs and my reloads are mild. I've fired around 300 rounds through my LCP and I've pulled the mag periodically to check for smileys, trust me, they haven't been there. Likely with stouter ammo it would appear though.

 

[marcodo]

All I know was that weight and reliability was paramount when I chose my pocket pistol.

For a number of reasons I needed the lightest pistol I could carry and still be at least in the 380 catagory or higher.

I have about 500 rounds through mine without a single problem.

I think I would have been happy with the P3AT but the LCP was avail at the time and I went with it and never looked back.

I would have prefered a 9 mm gun but there was nothing light enough for me. Even the Kahr and the micro Eagle were heavier. I handled the Micro Eagle and it seemed a more solid gun but still heavier and even though it was just a few ounces it seemed to make a difference to me.

For me, if I can carry a bigger gun I will. If I pocket carry its because size/weight is of utmost issue. The LCP fits the bill.

I was impressed with the gun. I painted the front site with high intensity metalic white paint and can shoot 3-4" groups at 15 yards reproducibly.

Once you get used to the very long trigger pull it's a pleasure to shoot. I carry it in a DM Bullard holster and love it. Gym shorts are a non-issue and I now carry everywhere.

I think I would have been happy with either the LCP or the P3AT. I didn't need the fancy upgrades you get for twice the cost with the others in a pocket pistol...just one that I could carry anytime and that went bang and hit where I was pointing everytime.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I prefer either to a snub nose revolver. Even if I just point and pull the trigger I can put all six shots on a pie plate sized target at a reasonable distance. This takes a lot more effort for me to do with a snubby and its a LOT less pleasant with the extra recoil of the snub. You can also reload much quicker, carry ammo easier, and the P3AT/LCPs are much smaller and thinner than the snubs. A heavier caliber weapon is better, I normally carry an M&P 9C or a H&K P7. The snubbies are just not that much smaller to justify carrying them. When you just can't carry the larger guns the small 380 are a LOT better than going without.

 

[Baneblade]

I carry a P3-AT every day in my back pocket. I have been happy with the gun and feel it is very effective for what it is designed to do.

However, a friend bought an LCP and I got to shoot it yesterday. I definately liked it better. Was it better? I don't know. Maybe I just got wooed by the cleaner finish.

My friend (the owner) did put 6 out of 6 rounds into the scoring area of our police TQ-19 target at 25 yards with the LCP. Can't complain about that.