Lead Bullet Ban in the works

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Azguy

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http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=5982

Friday, July 23, 2010

As announced in a recent fundraising letter to its members, the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) will launch a “once-in-a-lifetime campaign” this summer to “ban all lead bullets everywhere in the United States.” Make no mistake, hunters and shooters are in the crosshairs of this extremist group.

With regard to issues pertaining to wildlife and the environment, the NRA focuses on science when formulating its decisions and policies, not politics and emotion. We would all be better off if CBD did the same. With no scientific justification for a lead ban, CBD’s campaign is a deceptive attack on hunting. Radical environmental groups like the CBD have already contributed to declining hunter numbers by helping to eliminate access to vast public hunting lands. A complete lead ban would exacerbate this decline by mandating expensive non-traditional ammunition. Hunting should not be an activity limited to the wealthy; every hunter is essential to sustaining our great American sporting heritage.

Similarly, the recreational shooting that allows gun owners to hone skills and exercise their Second Amendment rights would be dramatically curtailed due to cost increases. The boxes of .22 long rifle, 9mm and .30-06 that families have shot for generations during trips to the range, the back 40 or at public shooting areas will be priced beyond reach for most.

Hunters and gun owners have been the greatest contributors to conservation for nearly a century. In addition to volunteer efforts to improve habitat, billions of dollars dedicated to habitat and wildlife restoration projects have been generated through the payment of hunting license fees and excise taxes on firearms, ammunition and other hunting equipment. At a time when jobs are badly needed, hunting generates billions of dollars of economic activity and more than one million jobs in the United States. To attack hunters and gun owners in this deceptive manner will be detrimental to the economy and the wildlife CBD claims to seek to help.

The Environmental Protection Agency has adopted lead management practices that “have been proven to effectively reduce lead contamination” at shooting ranges and has never called for restrictions on the use of lead ammunition. Some non-traditional ammunition has even been found to raise new concerns. If the campaign to ban traditional ammunition is successful, rest assured that the radical environmentalists will soon initiate a plan to ban the “next best thing.”

In its over-the-top fundraising plea to its members, CBD states, “The NRA will spend $100 for every dollar we spend. It will pull out all the stops against us.” What the elitists in the CBD do not understand is that NRA’s power comes from its millions of members who will take action to preserve the use of traditional ammunition for current and future generations. Indeed, we will pull out all of the stops because this fight is too important to lose.

Please be sure to educate your friends, family, fellow sportsmen and elected officials about these types of attacks and the radical groups behind them.
 
....and how much MORE money does the NRA want us to contribute to this cause which doesn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell of becoming any type of law? The NRA has to somehow 'justify' their existence.
 
Fellow, I hate to be the bearer of bad news and be the one to dispel your pre-conceived notions but you wouldn't own any type of firearm today period if it wasn't for the National Rifle Association. Guaranteed. Just like it take's millions and millions of dollars to run for senator or congressman or what have you, it take's millions and millions of dollars for the NRA to fight these people....
 
....and how much MORE money does the NRA want us to contribute to this cause which doesn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell of becoming any type of law? The NRA has to somehow 'justify' their existence.
A good thing I read once. A gun has two enemies... rust and politicians. I can deal with keeping rust at bay myself... as for the politicians? Well... I'm a life member of the NRA.
 
Fellow, I hate to be the bearer of bad news and be the one to dispel your pre-conceived notions but you wouldn't own any type of firearm today period if it wasn't for the National Rifle Association. Guaranteed.

Haha, sure.

As announced in a recent fundraising letter to its members, the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) will launch a “once-in-a-lifetime campaign” this summer to “ban all lead bullets everywhere in the United States.” Make no mistake, hunters and shooters are in the crosshairs of this extremist group.

Banning lead is unenforceable. Stockpiling types could easily have a box of "lead free" ammunition on hand and meanwhile shoot reloads from their stock while maintaining the appearance of compliance. Thousands of pounds will still be around waiting for the first to track it down or for a palm to be greased.

Just more hype from snake oil salesmen on all sides.
 
I firmly agree with GotC on every point. The NRA is often strident in it's appeals, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that, "All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - often misattributed to Edmund Burke.

Banning lead is entirely enforceable - you just have to go to the left coast for irrefutable proof. Thousands of pounds won't be enough; we use millions of pounds annually.
 
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Well, it seems that the acquisition of lead from most sources has become difficult to impossible. A ban on lead bullets started when we as hunters and shooters allowed the extremists to ban lead shot for hunting birds. The use of lead wheel weights has been imposed in many if not all areas of the US. Those of us who shoot lead in our replicas, SASS and any other sport that require lead bullets are really going to feel this, as will those who shoot handguns and small bore rim-fire, not to mention muzzle loader shooters. This ban you speak of will make the sale and shooting of .22 short, long, and long rifle ammunition a crime as they are either non plated or plated lead. Most handgun bullets are plated or jacketed lead, some completely encapsulated in copper or other alloy. All of these will be illegal to possess, let alone shoot.
As far as the NRA goes, it does cost buckets of money to buy a few politicians votes and even more when the president of the NRA has a salary in the mid six digit range.
The NRA has done a great deal to preserve the ownership of firearms in the US, but it has also been the people voting in the people who protect our rights and uphold the Constitution. We really screwed the pooch when we allowed the present administration into office, now I fear we are going to pay for it with many of our rights, starting with the abolishment of the Second Amendment.
I think we need to pray for a change in the administration in November, but that is becoming less and less likely, if we vote pro gun without regard of party affiliation, we will probably loose something else in the end.

Ray
 
They have already banned lead for hunting dove and waterfowl here in Illinois. You are right about the voting part Ray. If they do get a crazy bill to go through congress the bullet manufacturers will just make them with other alloys. Costs may go up ballistics will change but well still be shooting. Into every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. This is not only true for physics.
 
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A good thing I read once. A gun has two enemies... rust and politicians. I can deal with keeping rust at bay myself... as for the politicians? Well... I'm a life member of the NRA.
I'm a Life member of the NRA too, and I used to contribute to the cause, but they just always want more. Their salaries are too high and they are wasteful. They do not always represent my views. Don't think "You are the NRA" because you and I are not. THEY are the NRA! They will tell you that if you cross them. I have lost faith in them.
 
They may not be able to enact a ban on lead bullets, but they'd sure like to. They can, however, put "Use taxes" and other road blocks in place to make it so prohibitively expensive that it won't be worth it. So, they are targeting ammunition...and they'll probably get away with it in the name of environmental protection.

Who really thinks that they believe that drivel about wheelweights being ground into powder and contaminating the ground water? They know better than that. There are scientists and metallurgists who've already informed them of it. They know what we do with those wheelweights, and they mean to put a stop to it.
 
1911Tuner said:
Who really thinks that they believe that drivel about wheelweights being ground into powder and contaminating the ground water? They know better than that.There are scientists and metallurgists who've already informed them of it. They know what we do with those wheelweights, and they mean to put a stop to it.

Vermont has banned cars being sold with lead wheel weights and Vermont is not an anti-gun state but rather an environmentally minded state. And the same with Maine.
I don't really see the contradictory connection between being pro-gun and anti-lead wheel weights.
Why should millions of lead wheel weights be abandoned into the urban environment on roadways unnecessarily when there are alternatives?
Lead paint chip poisoning is a real risk for children so why wouldn't there be any risk from lead wheel weights? Apparently they create a risk.

http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/PollutionPrevention/ToxicsInProducts/leadwheelweights.cfm
 
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Lead paint poisoning is a real risk for children so why wouldn't there be any risk from wheel weights? Apparently they can be a risk.

Sheepdip.

1. Children eat lead paint. That's a hazard. In order to become poisoned, you have to ingest it, or breathe it as a fine dust. Indoor firing ranges can present a lead hazard for that reason. You can literally swallow a lead bullet without becoming poisoned. It would pass through your system too quickly. I've been casting bullets for over 40 years, and I haven't really been all that careful. My lead levels were completely normal on the last physical. (I have them check for it whenever I have bloodwork...just to be on the safe side.)

2. Lead doesn't get ground into powder by being run over. It gets mashed out into a different shaped lump of lead. It's extremely malleable.

3. Left in a natural environment, exposed to air and water, a whitish oxidizing coat forms on lead fairly quickly, encasing it and preventing it from leaching into the ground. Minie' bullets have been unearthed at various Civil War battlegrounds, and it's always covered with the oxidation.

4. Lead comes from the ground. If there were any serious leaching hazard, we'd all be poisoned by now.

5. There aren't "millions" of wheelweights lying on roadsides. If they came off that easily, you'd have to make an appointment a month in advance to get anything done because all the shops would be overwhelmed with the sheer number of out of balance tires.

Don't buy into the propaganda. It's not about the environment, and it never has been.
It's presented as such because it's akin to political suicide for a politician to vote against a bill that will save the whales and the children.
 
Wheel weights can and do fall off but the usual reason for this- other than an act of damage, such as curbing a wheel, or a collision- is improper installation- using the wrong weight for the wheel type, re-using old weights, or damaging them in installation.

If lead was as dangerous as "they" claim it is, why is it that the number of lead poisonings has trended severely downwards in the past 30 years? Since tetraethyl lead was eliminated from gasoline and lead paint was banned, since lead-free solder and pipe was insitituted in plumbing, and lead has been eliminated from modern electronics and most jewelry, where are people going to be exposed to lead?

Answer- from old house paint that was never properly sealed or removed.

When your job is to get people scared of somethiing, and they eliminate most of that something, you need to focus on anything that uses it so you keep the contributions flowing.

Plus "they" are anti gun, and "they" know what we do with lead wheel weights...
 
So...coming from a bullet caster who has scrounged near and far for wheelweights...Where are all those millions of wheelweights? I'd like to go find'em.

And, reused wheelweights don't come off all that much easier than new ones, assuming they're correctly prepped and installed.

Lead in paint is a little different than a one-ounce chunk of antimonial lead alloy. Since it can't be mixed in its molten state, it must be stirred in dry, and it has to be as fine as talc. When the paint is ingested, it gets broken down by the digestive acids. The fine lead dust is small enough to be absorbed in the digestive tract. That presents a clear hazard, as does any fine lead particulate in the air that is inhaled into the lungs, or heated to the point of vaporization and aspirated.

Chunks of lead on the side of the road? Nah.

When your job is to get people scared of somethiing, and they eliminate most of that something, you need to focus on anything that uses it so you keep the contributions flowing.

Plus "they" are anti gun, and "they" know what we do with lead wheel weights...

Absolutely. I made a prediction on wheelweights about 10 years ago...that they'd disappear due to environmental and health legislation. My casting friends didn't buy it. Now, they wish the'd stocked up on cheap wheelweights when they had the chance. I bought'em in buckets...or got'em for free many times. One for me and one to store. They're cryin' the blues now because when they can find'em...and they can get the merchant to sell'em...they cost as much as 50 dollars for a 5-gallon bucket, and about a third of'em are non-lead based.

It ain't about the condors. It's about the bullets.

Well...I got mine.
 
Well, it seems that the acquisition of lead from most sources has become difficult to impossible.

Where are all those millions of wheelweights? I'd like to go find'em.


It really ain't that hard. A couple phone calls, a couple trips to your local non corporate tire shop, a couple fifties waved in the faces of the manager, and you can have a pick up bed full pretty quick.

they cost as much as 50 dollars for a 5-gallon bucket, and about a third of'em are non-lead based.

Again, haven't had that experience. I probably burned through a ton or so last year and at best there were maybe 10-15 non lead weights total in a five gallon bucket.

They can, however, put "Use taxes" and other road blocks in place to make it so prohibitively expensive that it won't be worth it.

I still foresee tire shop owners continually hunting for beer money and know nothing about none of them "use taxes".

It's just another load of hype so that the NRA can separate the paranoid gun owner from his money. They were supposed to be phasing out lead WW by 2012 anyways, last time this paranoid bullet caster checked. Never did see a lot of discussion about that.

Regardless, I have my stockpile so tough luck for big brother anyhow.:)
 
It really ain't that hard. A couple phone calls, a couple trips to your local non corporate tire shop, a couple fifties waved in the faces of the manager, and you can have a pick up bed full pretty quick.

I meant the ones that are supposedly all over the highways and byways of America, leachin' into the groundwater and killin' baby ducks...as the chirping moonbats insist. Tire shops aren't a problem. I'm on a first-name basis with every shop owner within in a 50-mile radius, and I haven't bought a bucket of wheelweights in 10 years. Not everybody is as well connected, though...and they've been payin' through the nose recently.
 
fireside44 said:
It's just another load of hype so that the NRA can separate the paranoid gun owner from his money.
I note you didn't respond to my earlier posting, so I'll ask you directly, one simple question. Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:
"All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
A simple "agree" or "disagree" will be sufficient.
 
A simple "agree" or "disagree" will be sufficient.

Good men wouldn't "do nothing". So his calling them "good" would be a misnomer to begin with. And you expect a simple yes or no. The world isn't black and white. Context is everything.
 
Un-Hype

It's the real deal. I believe that the antis got the crap scared out of them at how rabid gun owners were after the election. Unfortunately the bullet shortage that followed the outrage gave them a key. Now that we have endured the Health Care Suppository and they have stolen more money than we can pay back in 20 years, it's our turn. Regulating ammo beyond all logic and reason will be the vehicle. Al Gore and the Greenies are the ones to do it with help from health care professionals and the united nations. For all its flaws the NRA is the only organization that can and will preserve those rights.

Higene

NRA Member for Life

PS: I am not going to preach to the choir and tell you to VOTE and VOTE RIGHT!
 
It would be nice if the NRA tells where they got that information of a country wide ban. I read that this is limited to the range areas of the California Condor and Gov. Schwarzenegger signed a bill in 2007 to ban lead bullets for hunting in the Condor ranges. They found in the Grand Canyon range that 95% of the birds had lead in their systems and 75% of those were so severe they had blood transfusions done to clean their systems. Hunters are leaving remains of their kills (and I am sure near-kills) with the lead bullets in them which are then eaten by the birds. The states of Utah and Arizona also support the ban in these areas only.
 
It would be nice if the NRA tells where they got that information of a country wide ban.

They probably don't have information, and there probably isn't a plan in the works...yet.

But...

Historically, whatever catches on in California, usually spreads to involve the whole country...from Surfer music to automotive and clothing fads to the Hippie culure. They all start in California. Remember the jacked up rear ends/fat rear/skinny front tire fad of the 60s and 70s? That was known as "The California Rake" and within a year, young hot-rodders everywhere were jacking up their cars with air shocks all over the country.
 
fireside44 said:
Good men wouldn't "do nothing". So his calling them "good" would be a misnomer to begin with. And you expect a simple yes or no. The world isn't black and white. Context is everything.
You should run for Congress. You think just like they do. However, I note your first sentence above and your position on this issue, and that tells me all I need to know. Thanks.
 
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