Lead bullets and smoke

[gspn]

I'm about to start reloading for .38 special and was wondering if lead bullets in this caliber tend to be "smokey".

I've reloaded for .41 and .44 mag for a long time and I don't shoot lead bullets at the indoor range because it's an absolute smoke fest. I understand it's the bullet lube that causes the smoke.

Since the .38's are moving much slower, and since .38 cal. lead wadcutters are routinely shot indoors I like to think that I won't have any problems...but I figured I'd ask around before buying a bunch of lead .38's.

I'm thinking it might be a velocity issue...perhaps the bullet lube on a wadcutter doesn't get hot enough to smoke since it's only going around 700 fps?

Do your lead .38 loads smoke?

 

[noylj]

If you notice smoke, then you will still notice it with .38 Special.
Personally, I don't notice it as my concentration is on the target--however, after reading all the posts about smoke as thick as black powder, I tried to pay attention. All I see is a quick puff of smoke that is simply blown away.
I have been shooting for over 40 years at indoor ranges and 99+% of all rounds fired were cast, and I never noticed smoke. Even shooting IPSC, PPC, bowling pins, and falling plates, I never noticed any smoke.
If you fire 148gn cast DEWCs that are only lubed at the bottom lube groove, you might notice less smoke.
If you can get the lube to be replaced with carnauba wax, you might notice less smoke.
If you use a single-base powder such as Solo 1000, you might notice less smoke.
If, however, smoke is a make-or-break, then go to jacketed bullets from Montana Gold or Precision Delta--and order in case lots.

 

[Starter52]

My lead .38 loads certainly do smoke; so bad that I don't shoot them indoors anymore. I get smoke when shooting .41 and .44 lead bullets also. It doesn't seem to matter what lube is used, or if the bullet is cast lead or swaged.

I like lead bullets for their price, and I still used them outdoors; but I find myself buying more plated bullets (Berry's) nowadays.

 

[4895]

If you can find moly coated bullets you can have the best of both worlds. I haven't found a bad load with them yet. No leading to speak of, very clean to shoot, almost no smoke, and as cheap as lead.

 

[gspn]

Noylj - there's no way you could miss the smoke at my range. After 4 shots I feel like people are going to start complaining about not being able to see their targets if I keep it up.

I've been doing the same thing Starter52 has been doing and I guess I'll keep doing it.

4895 - thanks for the advice on the moly bullets...I'll order a box of those and see what I get.

 

[Mike 27]

I have 45acp that are not to bad using bullseye. I have used MBC and HSM in it with similar results. I have 44spl and 44 mag loads I won't shoot indoors and have not found a good low smoke combo for it. It is a trial and error with powders, and bullet combo's IMO....

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I have 45acp that are not to bad using bullseye.

I too have noticed that Bullseye doesn't produce a lot of smoke.

 

[noylj]

I have shot at over 10 indoor ranges and never noticed smoke.
If you are suffering from that much smoke, then you need to talk to management about the ventilation system. You should ALWAYS feel at least a slight breeze on your neck.
I have shot a lot of LLA-tumble lubed bullets in competitions and have never noticed the smoke. Guess all the venues had decent ventilation or breezes.
I still suspect that many are paying more attention to smoke than they are concentrating on their front sight--but I only have my experience to go on.
Before buying any plated bullets, buy a case of jacketed bullets from Montana Gold or Precision Delta. Great bullets at the same price. If for some unknown reason you don't like them, and I can't believe that, you can always sell them.
Note: bullet prices are still on the rise, so buy now and buy in bulk.
If you order moly-koted, look to Precision Bullets (swaged and moly-koted), Bayou Bullets, and Bear Creek Bullets (CA co.). I have found that in my guns, the moly-koted bullets are not as consistently accurate as good cast bullets. No leading, but not the same great accuracy.
The one moly-koted bullet that has been accurate is Precision Bullets .45 200gn L-SWC; however, it still wasn't as consistently accurate over a number of powders and charge weights as Zero Bullets swaged or mastercastbullets.com cast 200gn L-SWCs.
I REALLY like mastercastbullets.com .45 200gn L-SWC with a BHN of 14. This is more than hard enough for anything except HOT magnum rounds and he gives you a price break for using an alloy with less tin and antimony.
One thing--don't use TiteGroup with lead bullets or moly-koted bullets--accuracy is pretty miserable and the cases are HOT coming out of the gun. It wasn't until I loaded some Montana Gold 124gn JHPs that TiteGroup showed any interest in accuracy, but it still isn't in my top ten powders in any cartridge. Others reportedly get different results.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I just use the nintendo 2000.

 

[Swampman]

I shoot a lot of home cast .45 ACP, .44 Magnum and several .30 rifle calibers all lubed with Alox. and I've never really noticed much smoke, but I don't shoot much at indoor ranges.
Also, my wife claims that I'm not much of a noticer...
Swampman

 

[gspn]

noylj - thanks for the info on all the bullet stuff...I'll give them all a look when I order.

 

[BossHogg]

I use a lot of the Hornady swaged 38 spl. They are a coated lead bullet and don't produce as much smoke as the lube band bullets. They cut the smoke down a lot when using Bullseye and shooting at low end lead levels. Some really accurate plinkers.

 

[Stormin.40]

I get a varying degree of smoke with the same bullet depending on the powder. Trail Boss doesn't smoke much but Titegroup does.

Not exactly sure why this is, both powders are fast burning and I am pushing the bullets at about the same fps so my guess is teh Titegroup is burning just a little hotter.

If you want to shoot lead indoors with a limited amount of smoke play with different powders or it sounds like coated swaged bullets are the way to go. I will have to try that, thanks.

 

[GP100man]

It comes down to the type of lube used on the boolit .

Base materials are beeswax ,otherwaxes & greases, even tallow, & other natural additives, natural burners that "smoke" to some degree .

Some are good at lower pressures while for more pressure it takes a better lube, for example I use the ole NRA formula for plinkin ammo 50/50 beeswax & alox, while for upper pressures it just simply "burns up" & gives little sealing/lubing action.

For hi pressure loads I use Carnauba Red from White Label Lubes which is an excellent lube for all ranges really & smokes very little & will leave the bore very shiney (I know the carnauba has alot to do with this)

But weither you wanna tumble/pan/or lube size ya boolits Glenn has the lube for ya & prices ya won`t believe !!
I`ve tried my hand at lube makin & I can`t buy the stuff to make a decent lube as cheap as Glenn affers it !!!

There`s also other makers of lube & suppliers on the Castboolit site, Randy Rat is a good source of materials &lubes .

 

[Ky Larry]

I switched to AA#2 and AA#5 for my low velocity cast plinking loads. Toward the upper end of the load data for cast bullets, Trail Boss seems to burn cleanly. I coat all my lead bullets with Lee Lquid Alox.

 

[TonyT]

As you correctly surmised the major component of smoke observed when shooting lead bullets comes from the burning lube with lesser amounts from the lead and primer/powder. If you want to shoot lead bullets with minimal smoke then go for the moly luibed or coated bullets. Years ago Star made their 38 Specail 148 gr. LWC and 45ACP 185 gr. LSWCHP bullets with a moly lube which produced very minimal amounts of smoke. The current moly coated bullets (Bayou, Billy's, etc.) also provide minimal smoke.

 

[bluetopper]

38 wadcutters and smoke put a smile on my face every time.