Lead exposure questions.

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scythefwd

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All, I HAVE read the sticky... still have a couple of questoins.

1. Lead sources that cause lead dust and vapors are what?
a. Bullets, both during shooting and casting (including exposed bases on FMJ)
b. Primers
c. Tumbling media dust
d. Spent casings, especially after tumbling
e. other (please tell me if I missed any)

2. I generally only shoot fmj bullets without exposed bases (SGK) though I am playing with some nosler partitions right now (exposed bases). Other than my cleaning supplies, is the vapors coming out of the barrel of my rifle That much to worry about (none coming out of the breach as it takes a while to get it open... break action and all). Shooting the non exposed based bullets basically mitigates this source correct?

3. Primers - I'm using CCI primers. According to CCI, all of their clean fire primers are lead free... the hazardous materials are :
Copper *
Zinc *
Diazodinitrophenol (DDNP)
Strontium Nitrate
Nitrocellulose
Nickel +

They also make a lead-free primer. This should make the primers, in my case also a moot point.

3. Tumbling media dust... pretty much only an issue with widespread dissemination if you allow the dust to get everywhere right? My tumbler has seals and no dust escapes while it is running. As long as I just pull the brass out (using gloves as opposed to dumping the media and filtering out the brass) then the spread should be limited to the brass and the gloves correct (which then will cross contaminate my dies and shell holder as well as my actual projectile) right?

Am I missing any other sources? From what it looks like, I may very well be as lead free as I can get without using solid bullets, but I'd like another set or 1000 of eyes looking at this and verifying for me.
 
I think most people poison themselves by failing to wash their hands after shooting or handling lead before eating, touching cigarettes, food, cups or glasses that then get put into their mouth and carry lead into their body.

Persons who work at indoor ranges are likely to inhale lead through dust as they sweep up brass and the range area. As they do this likely several days a week they're exposed much more than the typical shooter who makes the range once a week for an hour or so.

Casting should not expose you to lead from breathing in the air around the casting area unless you where to get the metal hot enough to vaporize, not required to cast.
 
Steve - I agree, except IF I miss a primer and it hits the ground, I may not find it. I know I have 3 primers in the room already that I am still looking for. My toddler finds them, in the mouth they go! Lead on the tumbler... she plays with it (never caught her doing it, but I wouldn't put it past her) and puts her fingers in her mouth.... hello issues. I'm trying to completely eliminate lead exposure if I can... I can handle the little lead I'll see from the brass pretty easily, my daughters though cannot.
 
Use wet media (steel ball bearings and water) pour the water through a filter pitcher (kept out of reach) and wash thourghly

Tumble outside, wash down after you are done.

Most lead comes from vaporization of exposed lead at the base of the round, elemental lead isn't that bad, it's the oxides and organic compounds of lead that are deadly, and cause loss of intelligence.

So I'd keep the reloading and small kids separated.
 
So the 50 rnds of the noslers I have will be of small consequence in the long run.

Most lead comes from vaporization of exposed lead at the base of the round, elemental lead isn't that bad, it's the oxides and organic compounds of lead that are deadly, and cause loss of intelligence.
Click to expand...

That's a cut and paste from your answer from another thread isn't it :)
 
lead test

To detect lead on surfaces, I get a little test pads in a kit from a local hardware store. It's called a “lead surface do it yourself test kit”, made by Pro-Lab.

The most accurate competitors in the groups I shoot with load and shoot about 1000 rounds a week. These are also the ones with the highest blood lead levels.

This blood lead level issue is something all shooters need to be aware of. Especially if a whole bunch of shooting is going on.
 
You can get a bit from not following the handwashing /avoiding tumblin dust ,but most is recieved thru the lungs & shooting at indoor ranges .

I`ve cast & shot ,but all outdoors since when ever & get heavy metals checked every 2 yrs & none shows up .
 
As a life threatening hazard, lead is right up there with Global Warming, with about the same validity. The potential is real... very slight but real, so exercise a little common sense and all will be well.


1. Lead sources that cause lead dust and vapors are what?

Lead 'dust' is hard to manufactor in much quanity and it tends to settle quickly; it is lead after all. Vapors come from molten lead being overheated so it concerns casting in poorly ventalated areas. It's unlikely the "dust" on your tumber contains much lead but it's easy to wipe it down with a damp cloth to remove the dust - and clean the machine - anyway.

a. Bullets, both during shooting and casting (including exposed bases on FMJ)

Microscopic lead (dust) can be produced by rubbing the bare metal but it doesn't fly around in the air like house dust. Don't lick your fingers clean of the gray color, don't roll your bullets around in your mouth, don't pick your nose with gray colored fingers and all will be well.

b. Primers

Primers have a very small amount of lead styphanate, most of it is blown down the barrel.

c. Tumbling media dust

Very little primer lead remains in the bore after firing. Very little of that remains inside the case so there is very little lead in media dust. Most media dust is media, we add to the problem by adding too much polish which dries and powders into a harmless dust that seems to produce much fear. Add a couple of 3" squares of used clothes dryer sheets to the media, the dust will get trapped in the open fibers and can be tossed out. And quite constantly adding polish, the media doesn't need it.

d. Spent casings, especially after tumbling

The empties have tiny traces that would require some highly sensitive electonic instruments to even detect, little of that remains after tumbling. IF you licked maybe 30.000 cases in a week you might get enough lead to do harm...so don't lick.
 
I don't know how much it helps but when I used to tumble at work after haveing everything all set up, I would wash my hands & toss the wet paper towel(from drying) in also. When they finish I take out the towel first that is loaded down with the fine residue. My brass is still dusty but that has to help some. I'm allergic to drier sheets so I don't have any to try.
 
Keep young children especially those still so young that they put every thing in their mouths away from your reloading/casting area. These youngns are in their developmental stages and lead is very harmful to them, once older lead in the metal state as in not dust or vapor is of little consequense, but its still wise to wash.

I concure pretty much with what ranger335v writes above.

This is an area where common sense will reign supreme.

I sould add that when yound I used to carry pellets in my mouth, maybe thats why I'm they way I am.
 
JC - I did the same thing. Thanks guys... Looks like my dangerous lead output of my setup is next to nil. My primers may be lead free, the new cci's are.. but I have older stock. That would be the only source of lead in my tumbler (lead vapor is only when firing, and I agree that the deposits are very small with this method).
 
Tumbling has consistently been cited as a major offender for lead pollution in and around your reloading area. It produces copious dust. So, avoid it if you can. The clean appearance does not affect performance.

If you wish to tumble, do it outside and follow good hygiene. If you treat it like raw chicken parts, that will guide you on what you need to do. Wash hands properly. Avoid cross contamination to prevent secondary contamination. Use nitrile gloves when possible to limit physical exposure to contaminated objects. Doff and don the gloves using good techniques. Pretty simple.
 
I tumble thousands of cases every week- I have two tumblers running practically 24-7... I handle lead including picking up fired bullets and wheel weights and smelting them down and make my own ingots and lead bullets. I load and shoot lead bullets heavily. I take normal precautions such as good ventilation, washing my hands after working with the materials and not eating before washing. I consider myself not particularly careful with my handling, certainly not up to gloves and respirators and etc. I would guarantee that I am exposed to 10x more factors that contribute to lead in the blood than 90% of the shooters out there.

My recent physical I had a lead test done. My doctor told me that in todays society a reading under 5 was normal. iirc it was 3 for me which he said was perfectly normal. Obviously not a zero but in no ways even needing further scrutiny.

My feeling is that as long as you are taking what I consider 'normal' precautions, you're not going to have a problem. Normal I would consider to be the same I would use for refueling a gasoline tank. Don't breath vapors, stay in well ventilated area, wash hands before eating, etc.

Lead isn't plutonium, one whiff won't give you cancer.
 
evan price and ranger335v have pretty much nailed it. A lot of people my age that test for high lead levels were also heavily involved in the automotive trade, where leaded gasoline was not only used to run vehicles, it was also used to clean parts, etc. Leaded gasoline is no more, so that's no longer an issue, but the lead has remained in some people's systems and is now being attributed to shooting, etc.

Use common sense and stop being afraid of the boogyman. The majority of people are more likely to be electricuted in their homes than die of lead poisoning.

As I've stated before in threads on this issue, I've been loading ammunition since 1963 and casting bullets since 1968. I load for 31 different calibers at the present time and cast more now than I ever did in the past. My shooting consists of thousands of rounds per year, all outdoors. My blood levels are within the normal range.

Back in the 1960's, I worked for the telephone company and most of the cable was lead sheathed. We carried cans of white lead in our trucks for marking terminal tags, which were also made of lead. We carried extra lead tags in our tool pouches. We soldered lead cables, and on and on, since just about everything we touched was made with lead. I came in contact with lead every working day of the week for 8 years, and we hardly ever had water around to wash our hands. I'm not saying we shouldn't have washed our hands, but we didn't know any different in those days. The bottom line is I didn't die from all that contact, nor the contact I have on a daily basis now with lead. The difference now is I do wash my hands after touching lead and I don't eat at my loading bench or casting bench.

Hope this helps.

Fred

PS: I turned 67 today, and I intend to live a whole lot longer, and I have no intention of stopping my shooting, casting, loading, etc.................
 
scythefwd, good question and the reason I posted earlier about where everyone's reloading room is located. If it were only my wife and me the concern wouldn't be so pressing. My 2 1/2 year old doesn't eat everything like he did when younger, although he does taste many things he shouldn't, but his hands are frequently in his mouth.
I don't think the question equates being scared of the boogy man.
 
My thing with the lead, is mainly the tumbling in the house, esp. with central air, as that will disperse the fines, I'd say clean the cases outside or in the garage, just to keep the dust from being blown about, and keep the younguns out of the reloading room, I have a 2 1/2, either he outs it in his mouth (compost today...) or he puts his hand in his mouth immediately after touching it.
 
Shadow, I've been tumbling in the house for years. We have central air. I keep the dust vacuumed up and try to change the media when it turns black. I don't let my kids mess with my gun stuff. Not a concern. I'm all for keeping young fingers away but that's general principles for all my stuff and especially lead.

I used lead weights for a recent science fair project for my daughter. At least that's what I told the teacher they were, cone-shaped lead weights approx. 240 grains weight, with a convenient groove near the base for tying a string on... anyway, no problems. Just don't let them chew on the lead.
 
Next question, when are you guys getting the dust? My tumbler has rubber seals above and below the screw for the top as well as along the whole rim for the lid. I bet I could tighten the lid down and have it be water tight. I just reach into the tumbler and pull out the cases, so there isn't any pouring of media to stir up the dust and I don't run it with the lid off.

When are you guys seeing the dust? Granted, I've only ran mine for a total of about 4 hours, so the media hasn't had time to break down into dust yet.. which is why I ask.
 
I pour my cases and media into a collander to seperate the cases from the media, if there is any dust, thats when its visible. I never run my tumbler with the lid off, I assume thats why the manufacturer supplied a lid, to contain everything in the tumbler bowl.
 
I don't think the question equates being scared of the boogy man.
Click to expand...

+1

My recent physical I had a lead test done. My doctor told me that in todays society a reading under 5 was normal. iirc it was 3 for me which he said was perfectly normal. Obviously not a zero but in no ways even needing further scrutiny.

My feeling is that as long as you are taking what I consider 'normal' precautions, you're not going to have a problem. Normal I would consider to be the same I would use for refueling a gasoline tank. Don't breath vapors, stay in well ventilated area, wash hands before eating, etc.

Lead isn't plutonium, one whiff won't give you cancer.
Click to expand...

My $0.02:

No, it's not plutonium. It's more like cholesterol.

We know that, statistically, smoking and high cholesterol is bad. We also know that some individuals can smoke and endure high cholesterol with seemingly little or no long-term problems - and there are those who seem to happily use them as proof that everyone else is afraid of the boogeyman. But those who assume they're one of the statistical anomalies do so at their own risk. So it seems prudent to me to get one's lead tested when one gets their cholesterol tested at your yearly physical.

Speaking of "normal precautions", I exercised them as well as anyone. To my surprise, I tested in the mid-20s last year. Like a getting a high cholesterol reading, it was no need to panic, but I did try to eliminate the source of the exposure. Six months later, I tested in the high 20s, and I stepped up my diligence. Another 6 months, and it's now 34. I've incorporated some additional changes into my routine, and they seem automatic now, and I certainly wouldn't say I'm mentally consumed by it, or live in fear of the boogeyman.

The points I'm making are that 1) "normal precautions" are fine and to be encouraged, but they say nothing about your actual blood lead levels. Neither do the opinions you'll read on gun forums. Only a test is definitive. Secondly, don't be afraid of the boogeyman, but also make sure there's no boogeyman to be afraid of. Even then, it's not a boogeyman, but simply a matter of eliminating the source.
 
Scythe: I have a Midway colander-type basket strainer that sits on top of a bucket. Dump the tumbler in that, shake it a bit to get the media out of the cases. That's where you get dust from. When the media is dirty I drape a towel over the colander before shaking.

If you overfill the tumbler it can actually push up on the lid enough to let dust out.
 
My theory is that we all process lead differently.

I was at the doc recently & had my lead level checked.
I DO wash immediately after reload, immediately after a shooting session, etc.
I don't smoke so that's not it either.
Yet my lead was 3x what the doc said was acceptable.

I was using a lot of lead bullets.
So now I've switched to all plated or jacketed with no exposed lead.


I have to go back 9/22 to be tested again.
We'll see if that makes a difference.
 
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