lead tire weights w/zinc
- Thread starter rodneyc
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I know of 3 local tire shops that better hope the EPA never shows up when I am there if this is true.
Lead weights do not contain zinc, but there are some weights that are zinc. You just have to pick those out and not smelt them. In short, zinc will ruin your alloy if you do melt it in, as for how it ruins it, I have yet to find that out.
Lead weights do not contain zinc, but there are some weights that are zinc. You just have to pick those out and not smelt them. In short, zinc will ruin your alloy if you do melt it in, as for how it ruins it, I have yet to find that out.
bigedp51
member
Wheel weights contain toxic heavy metals, they have been banned in California and the other 49 states will be following shortly.
In countries like Britain that have socialized medicine where the government picks up your hospital bill, the government has stronger regulations protecting their citizens from toxic materials.
Here in the U.S. we have "deregulation" and less protection so companies can make more money.
In 1982 the National Rifleman magazine did an article on bullet casters and the lead level in their blood. Bullet casters had lower lead levels than plumbers BUT had much higher levels of toxic heavy metals from using wheel weights. That artical was written 30 years ago and they are just starting to do something about now......money talks and safety regulations walk.
In countries like Britain that have socialized medicine where the government picks up your hospital bill, the government has stronger regulations protecting their citizens from toxic materials.
Here in the U.S. we have "deregulation" and less protection so companies can make more money.
In 1982 the National Rifleman magazine did an article on bullet casters and the lead level in their blood. Bullet casters had lower lead levels than plumbers BUT had much higher levels of toxic heavy metals from using wheel weights. That artical was written 30 years ago and they are just starting to do something about now......money talks and safety regulations walk.
rjrivero
Member
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As long as your smelt is not excessivley hot, you shouldn't have an issue pulling zinc weights out with your clips and other floating trash. I try to smelt the lead around 650-700 deg F. If you do end up with zinc melted in your lead, aggressivley flux with sulfur and you may be able to salvage it.
35 Whelen
Member
RJ is right. Zinc melts at somewhere around 785°, so I smelt my WW's in bulk at about 725°, flux and scrape the crap off the top. If there happen to be any zinc WW's in the mix, they just float around on top.
Really? What component of the WW's are considered toxic? How soon will they be banned and where did you read this? Last tires I bought were balanced with lead based WW's.
35W
.
Really? What component of the WW's are considered toxic? How soon will they be banned and where did you read this? Last tires I bought were balanced with lead based WW's.
35W
Tomcat47
Member
Oh Man .... Thats why I got a headache all the time! 
Wow...the WW's I have melted down to go BOOM!
And the crap I have scraped off the top!.....
This is worrying me a bit.......*bing*
Welp gotta go WW melted!
Wow...the WW's I have melted down to go BOOM!
And the crap I have scraped off the top!.....
This is worrying me a bit.......*bing*
Welp gotta go WW melted!
ArchAngelCD
Member.
California is going out it's it's collective mind. They are banning WW on the outside chance one might fall off a wheel and the lead will touch the ground. We all know how dangerous lead touching the ground can be, after all, it's not like lead comes from the ground. We all know you buy lead in the store and it must come from outer space, right?
It's my opinion we should abolish the EPA and start all over again...
It's my opinion we should abolish the EPA and start all over again...
evan price
Member
Zinc melts at a higher temp than lead. I dump all my WW in a pot and keep it around 700 and the zinc floats. There's also a lot of iron weights nowadays. All the non-lead floats on the liquid lead if you keep the temp down under 725 or so.
Zinc causes the lead alloy to clump. It's like "Anti-Tin" in a bullet alloy. You get oatmealy chunky liquid metal that clumps and does not like to fill out your mold. A slight amount of zinc- 1% or so- won't hurt anything if you use extra tin in your alloy. BUt lots of zinc makes the lead uncastable in anything but a large weight block. You just can't pick up the fine detail of the mold, the lube grooves, the sharp corners, etc. with zinc.
To get zinc to cast well needs very high temepratures, higher than bullet casters can use. It's also dangerously high for lead vapors. Plus zinc fumes will make you very sick. When we welded galvanized metal you had to use good ventilation or you would get a sort of low-grade flu sort of thing from the zinc.
Zinc causes the lead alloy to clump. It's like "Anti-Tin" in a bullet alloy. You get oatmealy chunky liquid metal that clumps and does not like to fill out your mold. A slight amount of zinc- 1% or so- won't hurt anything if you use extra tin in your alloy. BUt lots of zinc makes the lead uncastable in anything but a large weight block. You just can't pick up the fine detail of the mold, the lube grooves, the sharp corners, etc. with zinc.
To get zinc to cast well needs very high temepratures, higher than bullet casters can use. It's also dangerously high for lead vapors. Plus zinc fumes will make you very sick. When we welded galvanized metal you had to use good ventilation or you would get a sort of low-grade flu sort of thing from the zinc.
Lead wheel weights have also been banned in NY.
As far as EPA regs, lead is considered a toxic substance and it is supposed to be tracked all the way to safe disposal. I'm not sure how it applies to tire shops/ww, but I know with the solder at work, we can't just give it away. Broke my heart to watch a ton of it (literally) go to waste.
As far as EPA regs, lead is considered a toxic substance and it is supposed to be tracked all the way to safe disposal. I'm not sure how it applies to tire shops/ww, but I know with the solder at work, we can't just give it away. Broke my heart to watch a ton of it (literally) go to waste.
I agree that the EPA needs to come back to Earth, To get a job with the EPA you need to be a brainwashed environmental extremist and the NEA is providing plenty of those.
Less is more.
Green is the new RED
PS, don't cook zinc, thats some nasty fumes.
wkumatt
Member
I spent the first years of my career with the EPA, all of my degrees are in public health. Take two seconds with Google and educate yourself about high blood lead levels especially those exposed to lead metal fumes i.e. smelting, making caming, etc. As a Nation our blood lead levels have dropped drastically since leaded fuel was banned. People screamed about that one too. Take it a step further and read about the blood brain barrier in children and how and when it develops.
That whole, "what an idiot, bet he ate paint chips as a kid" comment we throw around? 100% true.
The unfortunate thing about many public health (EPA) regulations is that they are forced into being to protect the stupidest 1% from themselves. The rest of us are stuck with government regulations that should just be common sense practices. I don't agree with all of them, but consider the lifecycle of the material, yes lead comes from the earth. But in extremely low concentrations, what are the effects when we concentrate it and dispose of it improperly in high concentrations? I'm just trying to point out there is more to the story than just depriving my fellow shooters of inexpensive raw materials.
Full disclosure, I don't cast my own, but I grew up casting fishing sinkers about once a year from wheel weights. At my current rate of fishing I have enough now to last lifetimes.
That whole, "what an idiot, bet he ate paint chips as a kid" comment we throw around? 100% true.
The unfortunate thing about many public health (EPA) regulations is that they are forced into being to protect the stupidest 1% from themselves. The rest of us are stuck with government regulations that should just be common sense practices. I don't agree with all of them, but consider the lifecycle of the material, yes lead comes from the earth. But in extremely low concentrations, what are the effects when we concentrate it and dispose of it improperly in high concentrations? I'm just trying to point out there is more to the story than just depriving my fellow shooters of inexpensive raw materials.
Full disclosure, I don't cast my own, but I grew up casting fishing sinkers about once a year from wheel weights. At my current rate of fishing I have enough now to last lifetimes.
bigedp51
member
Lead wheel weights were baned in the European Union in 2005 our American EPA is being slow to follow.
Studies conducted by the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources in Madison, Wisconsin, have shown that approximately 40% of the runoff from residential areas and 70% of the runoff from commercial areas had lead levels "high enough to kill aquatic life."
California banned lead wheel weights in 2009, Minnesota 2009, Vermont 2010, Maine in 2011, Washington 2011, Illinois 2012. These state bans are ahead of any EPA Government National bans.
If you like jibjab we can bring back asbestos, mercury, more toxic dumping like the Love Canal OR we can try and clean up the mess we made on this planet for our children and their children.
wkumatt
Member
Jibjab, you're right about the discussion making a left turn. Maybe the health risk involved is worth a new thread at some point.
Sorry about hijacking your thread OP.
I saw a little red at, "brainwashed environmental extremist." I ought to be a little thicker skinned I did choose to work this field after all.
BTW, I have wondered about the same question and as always found excellent answers here.
Sorry about hijacking your thread OP.
I saw a little red at, "brainwashed environmental extremist." I ought to be a little thicker skinned I did choose to work this field after all.
BTW, I have wondered about the same question and as always found excellent answers here.
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DM~
Member
I'm a bullet caster too, and i've truned a LOT of wheel weights into clean casting lead,
As was said, flux well, and don't melt at too high of temp and all the bad stuff will come out. I have more than a few clean bars of lead around,
Just waiting to become bullets...
DM
As was said, flux well, and don't melt at too high of temp and all the bad stuff will come out. I have more than a few clean bars of lead around,
Just waiting to become bullets...
DM
Well that was a lively and informative discussion! With not having a proper thermometer I am assuming that if your bullets do not frost that you're at or about at the proper temp?
Where would you look for sulpher or a less smelly alternative? I have heard that parrafin will work. Thanks, Rod
Where would you look for sulpher or a less smelly alternative? I have heard that parrafin will work. Thanks, Rod
35 Whelen
Member
A really easy way to acquire a thermometer is to use an ordinary digital volt/ohm meter (DVOM). I have one (I'm an electrician) of the Craftsman variety so I just went to Sears and bought a temperature probe for it.
Regarding fluxing, you can do it with almost anything that's wax based. I keep an old candle laying on my bench and shave wax off of it for fluxing. But I've used a dab of bullet lube too.
Like everyone said, keep the melt temp about 725° or less and you'll be fine. If you happen to melt a little zinc in your mix, turn off the heat, let it cool, and start over at a lower temperature.
35W
groundsclown
Member
Can't believe no ones thrown cast boolits forums out there yet.
More info there than most would ever use.
As far as flux? Sawdust. Head to your local woodshop or cabinet maker with a 5 gal bucket in hand & they'll usually be happy to fill it up free.
More info there than most would ever use.
As far as flux? Sawdust. Head to your local woodshop or cabinet maker with a 5 gal bucket in hand & they'll usually be happy to fill it up free.
DM~
Member
I quit promoteing that site, when they started getting so controlling on what you post, UNLESS you sent them money, then it was OK...
I just don't go to sites like that anymore...
DM
35 Whelen
Member
DM~
Member
I was sent an email stateing what i said above... Limit your content, as in pictures ect.. or be a member (as in send $) and post what you like. I moved on!
DM
DM
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