Lead vs Jacketed and the Lee FCD

[Sledgehammer]

Hi All,

Been loading .45 ACP for a month or so now with good results. I started with Montana Gold 230gr FMJ .451 and am eating quickly through my supply.

To save on costs I decided to order some lead bullets from Missouri Bullet Company. I just received 500 rounds of their 230gr .452 round nose.

I decided to run a few lead bullets through my Lee 4 hole Turret press to see if all my settings (other than the powder load) worked with the lead bullets.

The bullet seating in station 3 seems ok. I like to load to 1.26x and these lead RN's are coming in at 1.269/1.27 which is a little tall compared to how my FMJ's seat (usually 1.264 or so).

The bigger issue is at the factory crimp die. The lead bullet does not want to go smoothly into the die. If I force it, it will go, and it will crimp it to .470 (same as my FMJ rounds) but like I said, it's a bear to get the case into the die.

I am wondering if the lead bullets being .452 and the FMJ's being .451 means that I need to increase the flare on my powder through expander die? (to get the lead RN seated lower and help the case get into the crimp die)

I'm no expert so that is why I'm coming to you all for some help.

Let me know what you think.

Jason

 

[ljnowell]

Flaring isnt going to help this issue, I wouldnt think. You are only belling so much of the mouth, not the side of the case where the tension is that holds the bullet.

I think the problem lies in the fact that you are swaging the bullet down .002". Its going to meet some resistence, I would think.

 

[Walkalong]

Personally, I would skip the FCD and use a standard crimp die.

Search will bring up many discussions/debates on the subject. I am 99% against em........

 

[something vague]

It is def not a flaring issue. If you are able to seat these bullets without seeing any lead shavings coming off them, then your flare is great. The issue is in the FCD. Like said above, your are basically swaging the bullet down to the dimensions of the FCD die. Not sure what the actual dimensions are but know that using lead with a FCD has caused many people issues. Get yourself a simple taper crimp and just barely touch the edge of the brass with it. I don't load 45 ACP therefore am unfamiliar with dimensions, but do know with all my rimless handgun rounds I only put a slight taper on them all. Basically just taking the bell out that I made to seat the bullet, maybe just a touch more.

 

[jcwit]

Do what walkalong sayes, he made a beliver out of me and I haven't had any problems yet. There's a thread and he takes you through it step by step.

 

[Sledgehammer]

Thanks for the suggestions.

In searching for a standard or taper crimp die...I see a couple options on MidwayUSA...Would it be the Taper or Profile crimp?

Taper:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=709739

Profile:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=124288

Since you guys mentioned taper I assume it is that one (also because it is on backorder and EVERYTHING I wish to purchase must be on backorder!).

Thanks

JB

 

[Sport45]

The seating die that came in your set will apply a taper crimp. No need to go out and buy another.

 

[JimmyN]

I am wondering if the lead bullets being .452 and the FMJ's being .451 means that I need to increase the flare on my powder through expander die?

The flare is just to get the bullet started in the mouth of the case, that doesn't seem to be your problem. All you need to do is decrease the crimp of the FCD, since the lead bullet is slightly larger.

That problem is not unusual as lead bullets are slightly larger than jacketed, so you need to adjust the crimp when switching from one to the other. You'll probably notice the bulge in the case, from the bullet being pressed in and expanding it out, is more prominent with lead than with jacketed.

 

[Walkalong]

In searching for a standard or taper crimp die...I see a couple options on MidwayUSA...Would it be the Taper or Profile crimp?

Standard taper crimp die is what you want for .45 ACP

The "Profile Crimp" die is Reddings roll crimp die. They are very good crimp dies, but the wrong type (99.9% of the time) for .45ACP. It is really intended for .45 Rim.

Less crimp on the FCD die will not make them easier to run through. It's the carbide ring squashing the round down that is giving the resistance.

I am using a Redding taper crimp die, like the first one you linked to, to crimp my .45 auto rounds. I am using my RCBS seater die to taper crimp plated bullets in .45 Colt.

 

[Sledgehammer]

Ordered the Redding Taper Crimp die from Midway. It's on backorder until mid July but once I have it in hand I will post the results!

Thanks to all for your help!

JB

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

Lee says for cast slugs to give them a very light crimp w/the FCD - I do so w/great results useing slugs from mike at 'mastercastbullets' - .380acp, 9mmPara, .357Mag and .45acp.

 

[RustyFN]

I cast my own bullets and size them at .452. I have never had a problem with the FCD but have heard from a lot of others that have. I am also thinking about ordering a standard crimp die to try just to see if there is a difference.
Rusty

 

[Sport45]

The bullet seating in station 3 seems ok. I like to load to 1.26x and these lead RN's are coming in at 1.269/1.27 which is a little tall compared to how my FMJ's seat (usually 1.264 or so).

This can be easily corrected by turning the seating stem in a smidgeon if you wish to make them the same length as the FMJ.

If you turn the body of the die in a bit you can apply a fine taper crimp too.

 

[something vague]

I would not think that it is neccessary to buy and especially wait for a taper crimp die. I would assume that your seating die has one already built into it. Once all your rounds are seated, back the seating stem out and place a round into the shell holder. Lower the ram all the way (making sure your seating stem is not touching the loaded round.). Screw the die in until it comes to a stop on the rim of the cartridge. Lower the ram out of the way and screw the die in another 1/8th of a turn. That should start to give you a bit of a taper crimp. Play with the die some to get the desire amount of taper crimp that you're looking for, for me I only want to take the bell out of the case and maybe just a touch more.

It is nice to have an extra crimp die around so you don't have to keep moving your seating stem, but it is def not absolutely needed.