Loading PC cast lead 300blk... Dies????

[Reefinmike]

I haven't loaded rifle calibers in a long time but I just burnt some cash on a new err handgun? Chambered in 300. The goal with this new venture is to shoot powder coated cast boolits. I'm pretty sure I'm on the right track, but I'm not sure on my die choices. Handgun is a 10.5" barrel with a 1:8 twist

Bullet mold will likely be the 230gr lee .309 tl bullet. Since I'm loading lead, should I get an expander die as well as a factory crimp die to seat separately from crimping to avoid shaving off powder coating? Is there a way to charge 300 blk brass on my lee turret press using my pro auto disk? Is appears that the lee rifle powder charging die is not made for brass under 1.403... 300 brass should be 1.36_".

Lee .309" push through bullet sizing die
Lee 300 blk 3 die set with fcd
Lee universal case expander
Powder charging die? This is my biggest ???

I have also read that seating lead bullets in cases with high neck tension can cause the bullet to swage down to under .309? Any easy way to eliminate this possibility?

 

[griff383]

From what I have gathered you should use an expander that is oversized by at least 0.001" IIRC some were using one from 7.62x39 or x54R

I have the RCBS neck expander in both 309 and 310, once set it will expand and bell at the same time. I got some really good information on 300blk talk forum as well.

Hope this helps and good luck

 

[oldpapps]

I suggest you use a .311 Lee push through sizing die for you bullets.

You will need to bell the case mouth to prevent shaving. Again, Lee comes threw with an inexpensive tool for the job. When I seat, I only role the bell out of the case mouths and have never had any problem with set back.

My standard loading is a cut down Lee C312-155-2R (shaved the mold to remove the gas check and just a little of the first drive band off) that weighs in at 130 grains with a single 'shak-n-bake' coating of powder from PBTP (PBTP = Powder By The Pound, one of the many suppliers. I'm using a clear polyester). This is set over a charge of Lt'Gun and a CCI 400 primer, all in cut down and reformed mixed GI 5.56 brass. Out of my 16 inch barrel, I get a consistent 2124 FPS.

As you are running a pistol length barrel and it sound like (pun intended) are wanting to go subs. You will want a different powder, maybe, than Lt'Gun.
Look at the listings here for some better ideas: http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=81567

Always load with great care and question/recheck and verify charges for safety.

P.S.
I use the Lee 'Factory Crimp Die'.
I shoot small batches and load on my old CH offset 'O' using a Lyman powder measure. I haven't done a set up for the BlackOut on my progressive, so I'm no help on your powder disk thing.

 

[Reefinmike]

Thanks for the pointers so far guys. I've been staring at the screen the past few hours and I've seen some people using the powder expander die from the 30 Luger die set. Sucks having to buy the whole die set but at least I could fit all the dies I need on one 4 hole turret.

As far as the bullet mold- I'm not set on the 230 by any means. I have 2# of win 296 on hand and would like to use that. My current lead alloy is straight wheel weights. I don't want to have to seat gas checks or shave down a mold. A bullet that works well with just a quick tumble lube would be awesome but I'm not against powder coating bullets. Any ideas???

Also old- why do you suggest sizing to .311? More accurate? What does your 309 die drop to for you?

Any ideas on a 150ish grain mold and suitability to be powder coated and pushed with h110/296?

 

[[email protected]]

Check out the NOE web site. He offers expanders that will work with the lee universal flaring die. The Lee die only bells the case mouth and does nothing for expanding the case neck. If the neck is too tight it will swage down the bullet. These expanders work like a Lyman M die, but less expensive.
The Lee .309 sizing die will work, but I polished mine to .310. If you go .311 you cant make it smaller, but they can be opened up a little. It will be best to slug your bore so you know what size you need. The normal for lead is .001 over and a 30 caliber is often assumed to be .308. Than is why the standard for lead 30 cal. bullets is .309.

The Lee 312-155 is a good mold for the blackout and i'm not sold on boat tail cast bullets like the lee 230. You can TL regular lube grove bullets like the Lee 312-155 and you may have better luck with gas checks installed. You may want to crimp and seat in seperate steps and the LFCD is a good choice.

 

[oldpapps]

Mike,

I have only pushed two lead bullets out of my 300 Black.
The first is an old Lyman 180 grain round nose. I didn't like the way it didn't want to feed well. Every one of them did feed, just not to please me.
The second is the shortened 130 grain 2R. It feeds like silk. Part of that may be the polyester coating. I have never pushed raw lead out of my Blackout.
I wanted a lighter bullet and worked for one between 125 and 140 grains. Getting much over 150 grains and the high end velocity is curbed. The availability of GI pulls, 147/150 grain, went south but I can cast to my hearts content. I also didn't want to mess with gas checks. As I've pushed those flat based 130 lead (coated) bullets to over 2877 FPS with no ill effects (out of a .308/7.62 with 22 inch barrel), I don't think gas checks are needed for my purposes. Another point. I've found that the 300 Black is more sensitive to seating depth than any other round I have loaded for. So I try to keep that stable. (Just another reason for me to trim every loading.)

In the Blackout I have used; 2400, H110/296, Olin 630 and Lt'Gun with bullet weights from 110 to 150 grains.
The 2400 just poops out before the velocity gets to where I like, no pressure signs, just limited velocity.
I get a queasy feeling jumping about with charge weights with H110/296. Too many years of reading those warnings when loading heavy pistol rounds. Never had any problems and do get higher velocities.
I love the old Olin 630, but it is a rare powder and I am reserving it for those loads that I demand the best accuracy.
I have found everything on the plus side with Lt'Gun.

I understand that every weapon is a world into its self and your shortie will be more different from my 16 incher.

Why I size .311. Well, over on 300BlkTalk, one of the guys that I respect and has way more experience than I, recommended using the .311 size. I'm happy with it. I would like to say that I'm getting 1/4 minuet accuracy but I can't, the rifle may but I can't. Macular degeneration (still have corrected 20:20 vision, it is just looking for a place that is not fogged...) and trimmers exasperated by diabetes all open up any grouping I try for.

 

[Reefinmike]

Eam- I have a good 25k+ pistol loads under my belt these past few years but I'm pretty new to loading rifle(loaded ~2000 rds 223 a couple years back). I understand the concept of an expander die to prevent bullet swaging however I'm unsure of how you prevent bullet setback? Is all that is needed a simple taper(?) crimp? Or do you somehow have to size the neck back down to spec? I've seen a number of people saying they are using the lee 30 Luger powder through "expander" die with good luck. I'd love to be able to flare the case and charge the case in one step on my turret press. I have a lee perfect powder measure but it binds up very badly with fine ball powders like 296... Within 3 charges it's out of commission. The pro auto disk feeds it like water.

Old- I'm torn between the 230gr mold and a 150grish mold. The 230 because the likelihood that they are good to go right out of the mold with a quick Alox tumble lube, maybe a quick pass through the sizing die. On the other hand, the lighter bullets attract me as I find heavy bullets hard to shake n bake powder coat. Along with conserving lead, higher velocity and possibly better stabilization out of a 1:8 twist. My only problem with a lighter bullet is the commitment to eithe powder coating or gas checking them.

Lilgun is for sure on my list to look out for, but seeing the current availability, the ~1.75lbs of 296 I have will be my go to powder.

 

[oldpapps]

Mike,

I understand your desire to use your 296/H110. Here is my tests with it/them:

300 Lt cut 30 130 H110 17.5 2023.167 DSA 7/2/2014 2.024 in Cast, sized .311, powder coated, sized
300 Lt cut 30 130 H110 18 2026 DSA 7/2/2014 2.024 in Cast, sized .311, powder coated, sized
300 Lt cut 30 130 H110 18.2 2096.4 DSA 7/4/2014 2.024 in Cast, sized .311, powder coated, sized
300 Lt cut 30 130 H110 18.4 2113.4 DSA 7/4/2014 2.024 in Cast, sized .311, powder coated, sized


I know, I'm back to using those lighter bullets. Should be noted that the 18.2 grains loading gave a SD of 8.9 out of a total sample size of 75 tests shot. I liked that spread. I do a running average of like loading tests and nothing will display with less than 15 test samples. The dates listed are the date of the last tests.

To load 300 Blackouts, I use the standard run of the mill Lee die set and expander and use the Lee FCD. With these I have had no set-back problems and run like silk (in my M1 Garand I do have a bullet pulling problem, walking out with each shot till 3 or 4 cases just loose the bullets - what a mess in the belly of a Garand. I don't have this problem with bolt actions or in my M1A).

You have my views on lighter, 130 grain, bullets out of the 300 Black. They hit hard and I have no concerns with using them for white tail or wild hogs. I would hesitate on elk or moose or big old mule deer. But, I wouldn't use a 130 jacketed bullet on them either and I know my cast and coated bullets will penetrate deeper than a light skinned 30 jacketed bullet.

 

[[email protected]]

The expanders simply expand a little more than than what you would use for regular FMJ bullets to allow for the larger diameter of the cast bullet. The neck holds the bullet in place so it wont set back, and the crimp is insurance to make sure it stays put.

 

[Reefinmike]

Ok guys, I think ive decided my options here. im trying to keep costs down by sticking with just a 309 sizing die and a couple different NOE expanders (What size for .309? what size for .310?) as I can adjust the bullet size with a powder coat post sizing or open up the sizing die if im not getting good results. here is what Im planning to purchase

lee 312-155 bullet mold(im assuming i will have to powder coat these)
Lee TL309-230-5r bullet mold (im hoping I can use these as cast & tumble lubed)
lee 309 sizing die

lee three die 300blk set
lee autodisk universal rifle charging die
lee universal neck expanding die
NOE expander plugs to fit in lee neck expanding die(what sizes for 309 and 310?)

anything else you think I may need?

 

[Reefinmike]

though I may forgo the expander die, noe plugs and rifle charging die, take my risks and buy a 357 magnum powder through expander die and 30 carbine insert. if it works fine without swaging bullets(using quenched wheel weights), i'm in the setup only $15 to expand/charge vs nearly $50 by buying lee powder charging die, lee expander die and expander plugs. And I save a step. I load lead in 4 pistol calibers just using the lee expander with good results...

 

[Mr.Revolverguy]

I have 5 pages of data on my 300 blackout journey including load data. I have had some serious fun with this cartridge.

Here is the page on my first serious engagement with lead bullets in 300 blackout.

http://www.dayattherange.com/?page_id=4212