LEAST informative gunwriter
- Thread starter cleve land
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I think Martin hit it on the nose with that sort of quote from Ruark about the countenance of the Cape buffalo. "He looks at you as if you owe him money."
Well, Cooper didn't look at people quite like that, but he could be pompous and dismissive, especially if one didn't wholly agree with him.
On the other hand, he was very articulate, had actually shot three men with handguns - something that few other writers have ever done- and he was highly learned.
Some who have been shills for advertisers, even writing special material for them, like Wiley Clapp, have compromised their integrity in my view. But his stuff is still always valid, what I've seen of it. So, the commercial angle taints, but doesn't necessarily ruin, his prose. You just have to be sharp enough to know that he's telling the truth. His trial of several Ruger GP-100's side-by-side was one of the best items that I've seen, and I don't think he fibbed about either the accuracy or the velocities. But when he writes promotional copy directly for certain manufacturers, it calls into question his objectivity.
Jack O'Connor once wrote a promotional booklet for Bausch & Lomb, when that firm was still in Rochester, NY. It was objective and frank. A very good early optics book. I still have my father's copy. Jack was also a real promoter of the .270 and of the Winchester M-70. BUT...he told the truth, as he was almost uniquely qualified to tell it, from wide experience. And he was a wordsmith. He seldom used really "big" words, but he never talked down to his readers, either. I enjoyed his wry humor.
I have in mind one writer who has praised Taurus and the work ethic that goes into building them. I like much of what he says, and his work has "flavor", if a bit too much drama, at times. I prefer not to name him.
But the overall feedback that I've seen on Taurus revolvers doesn't inspire me to concur with his statement. Those that I've examined didn't seem exceptional, but they weren't worse looking than comparable US guns. I've never fired one, but see so many horror stories on the Net that I probably wouldn't buy one. Other writers also got on the Taurus bandwagon. I have been a little leery of their writing since.
Far too much of the copy seen today is purely ad-driven. That is KILLING gun magazines. Shooting Times seems to be catching on a little, so they have Scarpata doing those vintage reviews. Probably too little, too late. But I am glad to see the effort.
Oh: I may know who the drunk writer is that Mec mentioned. He gets a little red in the face and a trifle belligerant when in his cups, if he's the guy I have in mind. And he tries to mention practically every rifle that applies to the purpose he's discussing. Woudn't do to leave out an advertiser, I guess.
Lone Star
Well, Cooper didn't look at people quite like that, but he could be pompous and dismissive, especially if one didn't wholly agree with him.
On the other hand, he was very articulate, had actually shot three men with handguns - something that few other writers have ever done- and he was highly learned.
Some who have been shills for advertisers, even writing special material for them, like Wiley Clapp, have compromised their integrity in my view. But his stuff is still always valid, what I've seen of it. So, the commercial angle taints, but doesn't necessarily ruin, his prose. You just have to be sharp enough to know that he's telling the truth. His trial of several Ruger GP-100's side-by-side was one of the best items that I've seen, and I don't think he fibbed about either the accuracy or the velocities. But when he writes promotional copy directly for certain manufacturers, it calls into question his objectivity.
Jack O'Connor once wrote a promotional booklet for Bausch & Lomb, when that firm was still in Rochester, NY. It was objective and frank. A very good early optics book. I still have my father's copy. Jack was also a real promoter of the .270 and of the Winchester M-70. BUT...he told the truth, as he was almost uniquely qualified to tell it, from wide experience. And he was a wordsmith. He seldom used really "big" words, but he never talked down to his readers, either. I enjoyed his wry humor.
I have in mind one writer who has praised Taurus and the work ethic that goes into building them. I like much of what he says, and his work has "flavor", if a bit too much drama, at times. I prefer not to name him.
But the overall feedback that I've seen on Taurus revolvers doesn't inspire me to concur with his statement. Those that I've examined didn't seem exceptional, but they weren't worse looking than comparable US guns. I've never fired one, but see so many horror stories on the Net that I probably wouldn't buy one. Other writers also got on the Taurus bandwagon. I have been a little leery of their writing since.
Far too much of the copy seen today is purely ad-driven. That is KILLING gun magazines. Shooting Times seems to be catching on a little, so they have Scarpata doing those vintage reviews. Probably too little, too late. But I am glad to see the effort.
Oh: I may know who the drunk writer is that Mec mentioned. He gets a little red in the face and a trifle belligerant when in his cups, if he's the guy I have in mind. And he tries to mention practically every rifle that applies to the purpose he's discussing. Woudn't do to leave out an advertiser, I guess.
Lone Star
The late Jeff Cooper, God rest him, wrote with a pretentious air that made him come off like a blowhard no matter if he was right or not. I liked him but could get tired of his blathering on about the obvious. He was a bit like some of the conservative talk radio hosts - I know their positions on everything so why do I want to listen even though we agree. HTH
Will Learn
Member
- Joined
- May 7, 2006
- Messages
- 481
I picked up a very informative mag the other day called Accuracy Secrets from shooting times. It had some good info on reloading, aftermarket barrels, and action blueprinting. I think its still on the shelves.
If we're griping about gun writers, Denis Prisbrey, you know who you are, you sure do take some goofy pictures! Fun storytelling though...
Aside from the big errors like calling a 7 shot gun an 8 shot, describing the groups in that gun as being 2 4-shot groups done rapid fire, and even showing a pic of the 7 shot cylinder and calling it an 8 shot, I'm pretty relaxed about it.
Otherwise a fluff piece is harmless, and I only buy stuff like Shotgun News where I'm getting my money's worth even without half the articles.
Congrats on the resurrection, this thread is from ye olden tymes... I hear that new .250 Savage goes 3,000+ fps!
GP911
Aside from the big errors like calling a 7 shot gun an 8 shot, describing the groups in that gun as being 2 4-shot groups done rapid fire, and even showing a pic of the 7 shot cylinder and calling it an 8 shot, I'm pretty relaxed about it.
Otherwise a fluff piece is harmless, and I only buy stuff like Shotgun News where I'm getting my money's worth even without half the articles.
Congrats on the resurrection, this thread is from ye olden tymes... I hear that new .250 Savage goes 3,000+ fps!
GP911
gbran
Member
There is a fellow on the internet, who'll remain nameless, but is very well known. He and others do reviews and collumns on his site. The reviews are excellent and all who write there are good at writting. Lot's of good info there.
However............. when you look back at all that was written over time, it suddenly hits you that you can't ever remember these writers ever giving a bad review to a firearm.
That's why I like Gun-Tests. I don't always agree with them, but they are brutally honest.
However............. when you look back at all that was written over time, it suddenly hits you that you can't ever remember these writers ever giving a bad review to a firearm.
That's why I like Gun-Tests. I don't always agree with them, but they are brutally honest.
hankdatank1362
Member
Durn, where's the necro-patrol when you need them?
Duane, dude... the mods tend to frown on bumping three and four year old threads just because you found your name in them. Just letting ya know.
Duane, dude... the mods tend to frown on bumping three and four year old threads just because you found your name in them. Just letting ya know.
C. H. Luke
Member
"...had actually shot three men with handguns - something that few other writers have ever done-"
Name one! Name one that's taken more than one hit in actual ground combat!
"Bausch & Lomb, when that firm was still in Rochester, NY."
Bausch & Lomb, NEVER left Rochester.....
Name one! Name one that's taken more than one hit in actual ground combat!
"Bausch & Lomb, when that firm was still in Rochester, NY."
Bausch & Lomb, NEVER left Rochester.....
Gary Sitton was one of the best. A real writer. I liked him. Enjoyed sharing a hunting camp with him.
After a troubled life, Gary died about a year ago.
Interesting (to me) story. My father got the okay to write a piece for Sports Afield magazine (he was the shooting editor of that magazine for about 27 years) on autoloading shotguns. He got a half-dozen from the manufacturers, took them to the range, got a huge supply of ammo, and invited people to come shoot them for free. Each gun was on a table, with a clipboard, where people would mark number of shots and number of failures.
It was instructive. This was probably close to 20 years ago. There was a clear winner. The Benelli just kept on going. None of the guns was cleaned.
He wrote it up and sent it in. The magazine edited it to REMOVE the results. That is, the story ran saying that they did the test, but didn't say which one won.
Of course, the sales guys at the magazine said the article would make Benelli happy, and make five other companies unhappy.
The readers went crazy! Dad was mortified, angry, and at that point, we knew that a corner had been turned.
Sigh.
After a troubled life, Gary died about a year ago.
Interesting (to me) story. My father got the okay to write a piece for Sports Afield magazine (he was the shooting editor of that magazine for about 27 years) on autoloading shotguns. He got a half-dozen from the manufacturers, took them to the range, got a huge supply of ammo, and invited people to come shoot them for free. Each gun was on a table, with a clipboard, where people would mark number of shots and number of failures.
It was instructive. This was probably close to 20 years ago. There was a clear winner. The Benelli just kept on going. None of the guns was cleaned.
He wrote it up and sent it in. The magazine edited it to REMOVE the results. That is, the story ran saying that they did the test, but didn't say which one won.
Of course, the sales guys at the magazine said the article would make Benelli happy, and make five other companies unhappy.
The readers went crazy! Dad was mortified, angry, and at that point, we knew that a corner had been turned.
Sigh.
Most of the good gun writers are dead or retired now, so just check the masthead of any gun mag and take your pick of poor writers and editors. These guys are human, though, and they do make mistakes, so I tend to take them with a grain of salt and pick magazines to read based on subject matter rather than writer. One thing I will not tolerate is a racist gun writer, though. I remember reading that piece of crap about shooting Mexicans at the border like it was a good thing. This conservative man of Mexican ancestory shoots back, so piss off old man.
Here's another gun writer peeve: even though I love .45 ACP and the 1911, I'm gonna puke on the centerfold if I have to wade through one more rehashed historical prelude of how the 1911 came to be before the author gets to the meat of his article.
On the flip side I enjoy reading pieces by Sheriff Jim Wilson and Duane Thomas. Wilson has a down home point of view and isn't afraid to write about having fun while shooting. Bart Skelton is another good writer and his genes show in his stories; I miss his dad's writing. Thomas got a little too serious at times, but he did steer me toward the virtues of SIGs (the P-226 and P-220 in particular) and often sought out new angles on old subjects. He was one of the first writers, that I know of, who wrote about female shooters as equals and valued their skills & opinions rather than showing them shooting some 'cute' pink gun in a lilliput caliber or calling them by some silly name.
I miss Dean Grennell and his writing style (his books taught me how to shoot and reload back in the 70s). I also greatly enjoyed the writing of George C. Nonte and I still peruse his Pistol and Revolver Guide (3rd. Ed.) purchased new in 1975.
While most gun writers are either the real deal or take on the personna of cowboy, cop or defender of the realm--it's getting way out of hand, today's gun writers come off as posers. I'd love to read an article that shows the writer putting the gun through it's paces while dressed in Dockers and a casual shirt rather than fitted out as a camoflaged desk warrior, spec-ops "operator," desperado, East European soldier or private eye. Playing "dress up" in a gun mag looks silly to my eye and makes me kinda embarassed for the writer as well. And, I don't care if you are a cop, try not to bring it up in every other sentence.
We need more new voices in the gun press. I just bought a copy of Gun World and the Handguns 2007 supplement. The Handguns piece has six articles, four of them written by Jan Libourel, and he also handles the editorial chores. Journalists just getting out of "J" school who also enjoy shooting (if there is such a critter...) might want to give him a hand. But I did get two mags packaged as a set for $3.99 and the articles look interesting.
I enjoy raggin' on the gun rags as much as anyone; but what would you do if one day you went to Barnes and Noble or the local sporting goods shop and there weren't any on the shelves? I'd have a cow...
ironvic
Here's another gun writer peeve: even though I love .45 ACP and the 1911, I'm gonna puke on the centerfold if I have to wade through one more rehashed historical prelude of how the 1911 came to be before the author gets to the meat of his article.
On the flip side I enjoy reading pieces by Sheriff Jim Wilson and Duane Thomas. Wilson has a down home point of view and isn't afraid to write about having fun while shooting. Bart Skelton is another good writer and his genes show in his stories; I miss his dad's writing. Thomas got a little too serious at times, but he did steer me toward the virtues of SIGs (the P-226 and P-220 in particular) and often sought out new angles on old subjects. He was one of the first writers, that I know of, who wrote about female shooters as equals and valued their skills & opinions rather than showing them shooting some 'cute' pink gun in a lilliput caliber or calling them by some silly name.
I miss Dean Grennell and his writing style (his books taught me how to shoot and reload back in the 70s). I also greatly enjoyed the writing of George C. Nonte and I still peruse his Pistol and Revolver Guide (3rd. Ed.) purchased new in 1975.
While most gun writers are either the real deal or take on the personna of cowboy, cop or defender of the realm--it's getting way out of hand, today's gun writers come off as posers. I'd love to read an article that shows the writer putting the gun through it's paces while dressed in Dockers and a casual shirt rather than fitted out as a camoflaged desk warrior, spec-ops "operator," desperado, East European soldier or private eye. Playing "dress up" in a gun mag looks silly to my eye and makes me kinda embarassed for the writer as well. And, I don't care if you are a cop, try not to bring it up in every other sentence.
We need more new voices in the gun press. I just bought a copy of Gun World and the Handguns 2007 supplement. The Handguns piece has six articles, four of them written by Jan Libourel, and he also handles the editorial chores. Journalists just getting out of "J" school who also enjoy shooting (if there is such a critter...) might want to give him a hand. But I did get two mags packaged as a set for $3.99 and the articles look interesting.
I enjoy raggin' on the gun rags as much as anyone; but what would you do if one day you went to Barnes and Noble or the local sporting goods shop and there weren't any on the shelves? I'd have a cow...
ironvic
Every time I read something by that Tom Gresham guy, I break out in hives...
JOKE JOKE JOKE! Really! I'm a semi-regular on Gun Talk...usually when Tom can't find anyone thoughtful and articulate, so he has to settle.
To a large extent, I don't ask for guns I know I'm going to dislike. Strangely enough, I spent a bunch of years as a rock critic for magazines like ROLLING STONE and ESQUIRE; after the first bazillion albums (remember albums?), I contracted a bad case of the "critic's disease." One of the symptoms is that, as a writer, it's fun to rip stuff. The second is that you become increasingly pissy in your likes and dislikes. You start out loving music and you end up only listening to rockabilly records recorded in Memphis in 1955 at the old Sun Studios between 3PM and midnight while loudly proclaiming that everything else sucks.
Same with guns. There are brands of guns that I actively dislike. Don't own 'em; don't like to shoot them. There's nothing wrong with them except that I don't like them. My friend Bruce Gray once bludgeoned me into instructing a day with one of those guns, and it went just fine. The gun was accurate, easy to shoot, the students liked it, blah blah, and, at the end of the day. I still hated 'em. So there you are.
Michael B, standing by for Gun Talk when Paris Hilton cancels...
JOKE JOKE JOKE! Really! I'm a semi-regular on Gun Talk...usually when Tom can't find anyone thoughtful and articulate, so he has to settle.
To a large extent, I don't ask for guns I know I'm going to dislike. Strangely enough, I spent a bunch of years as a rock critic for magazines like ROLLING STONE and ESQUIRE; after the first bazillion albums (remember albums?), I contracted a bad case of the "critic's disease." One of the symptoms is that, as a writer, it's fun to rip stuff. The second is that you become increasingly pissy in your likes and dislikes. You start out loving music and you end up only listening to rockabilly records recorded in Memphis in 1955 at the old Sun Studios between 3PM and midnight while loudly proclaiming that everything else sucks.
Same with guns. There are brands of guns that I actively dislike. Don't own 'em; don't like to shoot them. There's nothing wrong with them except that I don't like them. My friend Bruce Gray once bludgeoned me into instructing a day with one of those guns, and it went just fine. The gun was accurate, easy to shoot, the students liked it, blah blah, and, at the end of the day. I still hated 'em. So there you are.
Michael B, standing by for Gun Talk when Paris Hilton cancels...
TimboKhan
Member
It's not that I have anything against the guy or even what he actually says, but Clint Smith just isn't that great of a writer.
I don't particularly care for Dr. Martin Topper either, and I find the constant use of the phrase "Dr. Topper" off-putting for some reason. I also don't care for Craig Boddington, because he, more than anyone, seems to be a shill for the cartridge companies. If you listen to him, you will be convinced that a 30rifle battery of different calibers is necessary to hunt. Semper Fi to General Boddington, and I am willing to admit that many of the cartridges he writes about are pretty good and all that, but I just always feel like he is telling me that if I don't own them, I am missing the boat.
Finally, while I actually like John Taffin, I get a little tired with hearing about how great the 50's were.
I don't particularly care for Dr. Martin Topper either, and I find the constant use of the phrase "Dr. Topper" off-putting for some reason. I also don't care for Craig Boddington, because he, more than anyone, seems to be a shill for the cartridge companies. If you listen to him, you will be convinced that a 30rifle battery of different calibers is necessary to hunt. Semper Fi to General Boddington, and I am willing to admit that many of the cartridges he writes about are pretty good and all that, but I just always feel like he is telling me that if I don't own them, I am missing the boat.
Finally, while I actually like John Taffin, I get a little tired with hearing about how great the 50's were.
yesit'sloaded
Member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,662
Conner is so off topic sometimes it scares me. I love reading him though because he makes me laugh. People clear the room when I laugh while reading a gun magazine, which makes me laugh even more that they are scared of me laughing at a magazine article.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Buncha Whiners
Ha!
You guys think those other writers are bad? Boring to tears? Arrogant to a fault?
Ha!
I spit in your general direction!
Just wait until *I* start writing for gun mags.
I'll give you something to whine about.
Buncha ungrateful punks!
I can combine bad writing AND inexperience!
Huh? What about that? Y'all are so smart.
I've got some 24 kt ignorance that will seriously make you twitch.
Mumble . . . mumble . . .
Ha!
You guys think those other writers are bad? Boring to tears? Arrogant to a fault?
Ha!
I spit in your general direction!
Just wait until *I* start writing for gun mags.
I'll give you something to whine about.
Buncha ungrateful punks!
I can combine bad writing AND inexperience!
Huh? What about that? Y'all are so smart.
I've got some 24 kt ignorance that will seriously make you twitch.
Mumble . . . mumble . . .
Scorpiusdeus
member
I view Gun Magazines about the same as I view Playboy or Penthouse. I don't read them for the articles. I've met and watched a few "gun writers" doing evaluations. I found them to be no different than anyone else. As others have pointed out, they always have something good to say about the gun they are shooting in that article. Other than stats and pictures they are worthless.
In one or more of the rags they have a "It happened to me" section. This is about as realistic as Penthouse forum.
In one or more of the rags they have a "It happened to me" section. This is about as realistic as Penthouse forum.
Snicker. I know what you mean. Those are real exercises in creative fiction.
There is one current writer whose name I will not mention but his initials are CT; He wrote columns about gunfights and he would give the mental thoughts of the person doing the shooting. Kind of like the "voiceover" on an old film noir.
"There I was. It was comforting to feel the Commander with its lethal load of HydraShoks nestled under my armpit in the sweltering Arizona heat. ..."
How would he know?
Ok. You woke up a sickening repressed memory. I don't know who wrote this and am sure that he has written a lot of really good stuff and is really informative on his good days but one article a lot of years ago, had a guy conjecturing about how several famous gunwriter/gunfighter/gurus would look as they "Exercised Deadly Force!"
This made me want to dip a snuff and then regurgitate
Aguila Blanca
Member
Some of the poor goats were shot twice?mec said:
My gawd, where is PETA when you really need them? What calibre for goats?
Well, as a matter of fact, I seem to remember that the ones they allegedly shot with 158 round nose might have been dispatched by multiple rounds. maybe not. They did allegedly stop shooting them with that round because the goats either kept on eating or croaked lingeringly. One goat allegedly jumped out of the shooting area, ripped out his piezo-electric peak hold transducers and ran around going "OOOOOHHHHHHHHH CCCRRAAAAPPPPP!"
Old Dog
Member
I didn't realize how much I missed our monthly gun magazine/gunwriter bashing thread, until someone resurrected this three-and-a-half year old thread ...
The Annoyed Man
Member
I've pretty much stopped buying gun magazines. The only one I still get is American Rifleman. But I did used to get a kick out of Dean Grennell. Back when I got my first firearm - a 1911 I inherited from my dad - I bought a Grennell book about the 1911 to learn more about this particular one. I pictured a crusty old fart with a heart of gold. I don't know if that is accurate about him or not, but I did enjoy his writing.
I also have enjoyed Jim Wilson's stories. One in particular I remember which still makes me laugh today is the one where he had to crawl into a thicket armed with a .357 Blackhawk to dispatch a wounded sow. Apparently, after encountering said sow when he least expected to, he unleashed a barrage from that old Blackhawk and put the pig down. When he crawled back out of the thicket, scratched and bleeding, clothes torn and dirty, and scared half out of his mind, his friends were all laughing at him. When he peevishly asked what was so damned funny, one of them said that was the first time he had ever heard a single action revolver fire on full auto.
For what it's worth, I've stopped buying motorcycle magazines too. They were all just starting to clutter up the place, so I canceled my subscriptions.
I also have enjoyed Jim Wilson's stories. One in particular I remember which still makes me laugh today is the one where he had to crawl into a thicket armed with a .357 Blackhawk to dispatch a wounded sow. Apparently, after encountering said sow when he least expected to, he unleashed a barrage from that old Blackhawk and put the pig down. When he crawled back out of the thicket, scratched and bleeding, clothes torn and dirty, and scared half out of his mind, his friends were all laughing at him. When he peevishly asked what was so damned funny, one of them said that was the first time he had ever heard a single action revolver fire on full auto.
For what it's worth, I've stopped buying motorcycle magazines too. They were all just starting to clutter up the place, so I canceled my subscriptions.
Grennell was great. Pretty much the same in person as in print-though a bit more f-wordy. He wrote a great article on sensory -neural deafness. Years later, I ran into him at an NRA meeting. He was wearing two miracle ear and I asked him how they worked.
" Great! Just Great! I used to go to the grocery store and all I heard was f-wording gibbererish!. Now, I go to the grocery store and I hear LOUD f-wording gibberish."
and on Glocks, " Does Glock have a booth here???? Whereisit??? You know, I've never shot a Glock. Never wanted to but I bet if you dropped one in a creek, the ugli'ed wash two miles downstream."
" Great! Just Great! I used to go to the grocery store and all I heard was f-wording gibbererish!. Now, I go to the grocery store and I hear LOUD f-wording gibberish."
and on Glocks, " Does Glock have a booth here???? Whereisit??? You know, I've never shot a Glock. Never wanted to but I bet if you dropped one in a creek, the ugli'ed wash two miles downstream."
Fatelvis
Member
Boy, isnt that the truth!? For the money that some of these rifles are going for, I would want them to shoot "negative number" groups!!
trueblue1776
Member
The thing I hate is when I pick up a mag for a product review and it's written by some schmuck who is trying to one-up SOF mag. Seriously, writers from Consumer Reports don't claim to be race car drivers when testing the new Taurus. Dramatized (artificial) military tactical advise and the people who think it translates to normal, pedestrian life...
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