Leaving a bp revolver loaded

[FSCJedi]

How long can a person leave a black powder percussion revolver loaded and still trust it to fire? Would it store longer if loaded (powder > wad > ball) as opposed to (powder > ball > lube)?

Now that I think of it, what's the advantage to wads over lube, or visa versa?

 

[4v50 Gary]

No difference from a blackpowder rifle. It all depends on the humidity and how well stored the firearm is. Blackpowder doesn't degenerate over time but it can absorb moisture (understatement?). Thus it is important to keep the firearm in a warm, dry environment. I know one gunmaker who does as the old timers did - keep a loaded gun over the door just in case something needs killing.

Regarding wads & lubes, well, so long as it doesn't run into the powder, it will do fine. I like oversized balls as it "seals" the cylinder. For filler I use cornmeal - nice & dry. Greasy lubes that warm up and "run" can conceivably ruin the powder. This was a problem with the Devigne system that required greasy paper cartridge paper that was also used as a wad - in hot climates like Algiers it would run and ruin the powder.

 

[mec]

I just read something about Robert E. Lee's navy revolver which had beenloaded since the war. In 1875, somebody fired it empty and was surprised when all chambers went off perfectly well.

If the chambers are thoroughly clean, the nipples cleared and all traces of oil removed for loading, the charges will probably last a real long time. On the other hand, just popping a few caps to clear the chambers often isn't enough to get rid of all the oil. It's not unusuall to get sluggish ignition with the first cylinder full from a bp revolver.

The original colt instruction sheet which mentions revolvers in use from 1850-60, gives the standard loading procedure:
1. Fill the chambers with powder;
2. seat a bullet without patch or wadding in each loaded chamber
3. place percussion caps on the tubes
4. lower the hammer to one of the pins between the tubes.

Lubricated felt patches, grease over the chamber were things that developed later or, in the case of the grease, might have been applied at Vera Cruz when the soldiers experienced cross firing and blown up Walkers.

 

[FSCJedi]

Regarding wads & lubes, well, so long as it doesn't run into the powder, it will do fine. I like oversized balls as it "seals" the cylinder. For filler I use cornmeal - nice & dry.

Gary,

I was of this opinion too (about oversized balls). I don't see the point in wads or lubes if you have an oversized ball either squeezed in the cylinder (in the case of chamfered cylinder mouthes), or pressed in the cylinder (in the case of shaving a small ammount of lead off the ball during insertion). Either way, it produces an air-tight seal, does it not? I've read that .380 balls for a .36 cal. revolver work well to this purpose, and allow more accuracy as it grips the rifling better. I could be mistaken on this.

Concerning cornmeal: this may sound like a silly question, but would it be loaded (powder > cornmeal > ball)? If so, how much cornmeal should one use? Do you carry it (cornmeal) with your supplies to wherever you are going (range, woods, etc...)? How do you transport it and keep it from getting damp?

 

[4v50 Gary]

You have the sequence right and

The amount of cornmeal depends on several factors:

1) Amount of powder
2) type of bullet (round or conical)
3) space between bullet & powder.

A rammer rams the ball/bullet down only so far. Ideally any space inbetween the powder and the ball should be filled with something. Different ball/conical will go down only so far into the cylinder before the rammer won't ram anymore. That's something that can be estimated by Mark I eyeball.

Many folks use wads - but I'm cheap and I use cornmeal or farina (freebie USDA stuff that has turned rancid). It's not a precise amount and I use to use a spent pistol cartridge glued to a piece of wood. This would be dipped into the cornmeal/farina (you can carry it in a pouch or jar) and then poured into the cylinder.

 

[FSCJedi]

How much powder I use will have to be based on other people's existing results seeing as how I don't have access to a cronograph to clock my speeds.

I have no interest in using bullets for bp shooting. If I want to shoot a bullet, I'll go get one of my Beretta's. For bp, round ball is all for me.

In one of the other threads I have about bp shooting, a guy said he got good results using 21gr. of fffg powder and a .375 round ball. (good accuracy at speeds > 1000 fps). I reckon I'm going to have to ask for some good combinations of powder/ball size ratios here once I finally break down and get one.

 

[4v50 Gary]

You're like me. I shoot for fun.

BTW, best powder load is the most accurate load. That's not necessarily the heaviest load either. However, when I want fun, it's as much powder as I can stuff down the cylinder of the Old Army (the only one I'll abuse in that manner).

 

[FSCJedi]

Yeah, fun is definately my goal. I want this gun for my little slice of Americana history, and to experience things the way they did way back in the day.

Another question about lube. I've read that it keeps the "fouling" soft. Now, by fouling, I assume it means the bits of particles that stay in the barrel, yes? Why would this be a problem since you're suppose to clean the gun after every range session? I figure it'll still be soft by the time you're done shootin'.

Also, this is definately a newbie question (and frankly a bp ignorant question), but what keeps the caps from falling off the nipples at the capping port (term?) when the gun is raised at any angle? Friction?

P.S. By the way, thanks for all your replies to this point. I really appreciate everything, guys.

 

[mec]

A Farina filler! Now that's traditional. Farina was the Post Toastie of the Late Roman Republic.
My Navy will shave a ring with a .375 ball and so will my Paterson. Some say that the .375s are a bit small for their chambers. The other day, I had some .451 balls from Hornady that I had gotten wet. They had a layer of oxidation on them and were a loose fit compared to the speer balls I had been using. I set them down on the wood loading bench and whacked them with the handle of my nipple wrench. Loaded flat point up, they shaved a ring and shot very well.

By all means create friction on your caps by squeezing them if it is not already present. I find this necessary even with #10 caps.

 

[Gatofeo]

I much prefer to use a .380-inch ball in my .36-calibers. It cuts down on the logistics of storing and carrying both .375 and .380 inch balls.
My Colt 2nd generation 1851 Navy has chambers that require a ball larger than .375 inches. In the original Colt instruction booklet that came with this revolver, Colt suggests using .378 inch balls.
Now ... ah esk ya ... where DO you find .378 inch balls?
My other .36 calibers will take a .375 inch ball okay, but they show a decided preference for the .380 ball where accuracy is concerned. I believe the wider bearing surface created by the swaging of the .380 ball is a real benefit.

The need to keep fouling soft is crucial to accurate black powder shooting. If you shoot nothing but a ball, without lubricant, on a hot day you will quickly see fouling build up and accuracy drop off.
Keeping the fouling soft allows the bullet to push it out with each shot, rather than the fouling getting ironed into the rifling grooves if it's dry.

In my experience, a greased felt wad between the ball and powder keeps the fouling softer than placing a gob of grease over the ball. I believe this is due to the heat of the powder "boiling out" the lubricant from the wad, as it travels down the bore. The felt wads I've recovered are quite dry.

Cornmeal is good. When I use light loads I seat the greased wad on the powder as usual. Then I add cornmeal to within 1/4 inch of the top of the chamber. If it's closer than 1/4 inch, no worries. Corn meal compresses and will compensate. The oft-recommended Cream of Wheat doesn't compress, so you have to be exact. I prefer corn meal, for its compression advantage.
I'm not familiar with Farina.

Some years ago, I loaded the cylinder of my Colt 2nd generation 1851 Navy with FFFG black powder, greased felt wad and .380 inch ball. I pinched some CCI caps into an oblong shape and firmly seated them on the nipples.
Then I left that cylinder outside, under cover, from spring through fall. Highs in the shade reached 100 degrees (38 C) and lows were near freezing.
In late October I fired that cylinder and all chambers went off as expected. I could detect no hangfires or reduced-power loads. None of the chambers showed a speck of rust, either, from their bare contact with black powder.
Under the right conditions, I suspect a loaded cap and ball cylinder could fire decades after it was loaded --- just like most ammunition.

 

[BigG]

The only BP revo I've had experience with was a 1860 Army repro by Uberti. It shaved a perfect ring off each ball (.457 IIRC). No need for grease or other contaminants, imho.

 

[TaxPhd]

With proper balls, grease is not required to prevent chain fires. Chain fires occur from the nipple end when caps fall off charged cylinders, or don't fit tightly.

Grease does keep the fouling soft and the gun shooting. Try it sometime. Don't use grease, and see how many shots you can fire before the gun locks up. Then try it with grease. You will be surprised.



Scott

 

[mainmech48]

Personally, I'd be more concerned with corrosion getting started in the chambers than I would with misfires. BP and most of the modern subs are hygroscopic. No matter how tight your ball and wad are, moisture can still get at your charge via the cap/nipple juncture. The copper cap will expand and contract with temp changes to some extent, and to a different degree than the steel. It doesn't take much for air to get in, and whatever moisture it carries goes with it. Even a very tight-fitting cap is unlikely to remain airtight indefinitely, IMHO.

While it's unlikely to be enough to actually "kill" the charge, even a little will combine with sulphur compounds and nitrates and create acids. As your chamber was pretty much "dry" when you loaded it, those acids won't have much to keep them from attacking the steel. Given enough time, it'd mess your cylinder up pretty thoroughly.

A coating of some sort of hard, dry wax on the nipples and chamber walls might slow it down some, but I wouldn't want to experiment using an original or a fine replica as a test bed.

I've read stories where people supposedly dripped beeswax on the cap/nipple joint to "waterproof" things further, but couldn't say whether this is fact or fiction for sure.

The longest I've ever left one of mine loaded has been eight days. Unique circumstances, unlikely to reoccur. My SD/HD needs are handled by more modern weapons.