lee carbide sizer/crimp die 45acp

[nofishbob]

The concept of using a die like a Lee FCD is sound. Why not add a final check to make sure each round will chamber? Large commercial loading machines like the ones made by Ammo Load use a final sizing check die.

Where things get fuzzy is in the details, specifically the relationship between the size of the FCD, the bullet, and the regular sizing die.

If the FCD is touching 1 or 2 rounds out of a thousand, it is working as you would expect, as a final check.

On my FCD, loading 45 ACP, it resizes EVERY round, and not just a little. Obviously, something is wrong. It sure makes my LNL press a lot of work to operate, with a lot of handle force.

I have reloaded and shot around 1200-1500 rounds made like this with no problems in my Glock 21.

When I get back home later this week, I will check to see if rounds not FCD'd will chamber, and if a factory round will contact the FCD. I am pretty sure my FCD is undersized. If this is the case, I will either get another FCD (hopefully the right size), or experiment with just eliminating the FCD altogether.

I use Hornady bullets (45177) and a Hornady sizer.

Bob

 

[Halo]

On my FCD, loading 45 ACP, it resizes EVERY round, and not just a little. Obviously, something is wrong. It sure makes my LNL press a lot of work to operate, with a lot of handle force.

I have reloaded and shot around 1200-1500 rounds made like this with no problems in my Glock 21.

I agree, if it were only contacting a few rounds out of hundreds. As in your case, mine is resizing almost every 9mm round (right above the case head for mine). I wonder if this might be because they were all fired in a Glock. I've read elsewhere that brass fired in Glocks often has more expansion in that area of the case. In contrast I have no such problem with my 45 loads. Those are all fired in a SIG P220. What part of your brass is getting resized by the FCD?

Of course the obvious flaw in the Glock theory is, shouldn't the initial resizing/depriming operation fix the brass? Clearly the FCD is sizing to smaller dimensions than either of our resizing dies. What kind are you using? Mine is a RCBS carbide die.

 

[MMCSRET]

I don't remember any of my crimp dies touching a round loaded with a jacketed or plated bullet. The only time mine comes into play for sizing is on oversized cast bullets which is exactly what I want because they will slug up to fit the chamber throat and bore. Of course I do all my crimping with it as a separate step, speaking of the carbide crimp die of course, not the rifle factory crimp die.

 

[evan price]

My ideas concerning the FCD are pretty known, also.

Great if you have a tight match gun for competition.

For general reloading for blasting ammo, it's a waste of money.
If your brass, bullets and dies are in spec and proerly adjusted, you will have no need ever to use it.
If you want to crimp in a separate step from seating, great. That's a great use for the FCD. Personally, I adjust my expander and seat/crimp dies so I don't need a 4th station.

Then there are the folks that don't really know what they are doing, but they do it anyway.
Using the FCD as a fixall for laziness elsewhere is NOT a good idea.

I have some .45 cases (still loaded) I picked up off the ground at my range- heavy roll crimp, obviously post sized in an FCD, the bullets wiggle in the cases. There's someone who didn't know what they were doing and I'm glad they weren't shooting beside me.

 

[MMCSRET]

evan price: are you talking of the Factory crimp die or the Carbide crimp die? I'm having trouble following the line of thought in this thread because people are using the terms interchangeably and the tools are not interchangeable in design, purpose or operation. Please help clear the fog in my understanding, thank you very much.

 

[Walkalong]

Technically, it is the:

Lee Factory Crimp Die: - Rifles

Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die: - Pistols

Completely different animals. We are guilty of using FCD when we are talking about the CFCD for pistols. Here in this thread we are discussing the pistol die, or the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. It can get a little confusing, but when we are talking about post sizing rounds it should be understood that it is the pistol die being discussed.

I don't remember any of my crimp dies touching a round loaded with a jacketed or plated bullet. The only time mine comes into play for sizing is on oversized cast bullets which is exactly what I want because they will slug up to fit the chamber throat and bore.

That is how it should work, and is the (false?) advertising that got me to try a couple, but my experience with 2 different LCFCD's in different calibers was that they were post sizing every round, which is not good. Either I got two bad ones, or they are junk like I have verbalized.

I haven't had any problems gettings 1000's of rounds of lead, plated, & jacketed rounds to feed, fire, and eject without using the LEE CARBIDE FACTORY CRIMP DIE (with the insert.)

 

[CHEVELLE427]

what a can of worms i have open:banghead:

 

[MMCSRET]

It is NOT a can of worms!!!!! It is and continues to be an informative and valuable conversation that can only happen here at THR. I have been loading for over 50 years and have a tremendous inventory of tools and they all have their uses. Keep it coming!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CHEVELLE427]

AND i thought this only went on over on the GB form

 

[ilbob]

I don't see how it could hurt anything (as in your gun blowing up) but a fair number of bullseye shooters report they have tried it and the results are less accurate ammo. YMMV.

Proper trimming and die adjustment will eliminate virtually all problems with reloads not chambering. IMO, the FCD is a solution to a problem that should not exist, but does.

 

[MMCSRET]

As I have said before; I find it to be primarily in the use of oversized soft cast bullets that make the entire cartridge oversize and will not allow it to chamber. It works well for this, prior to the introduction of this concept by Lee, I used to pull the decapping rod out of my full length sizer die and run the loaded round in far enough to guarantee chambering. I have done this and still do for straight wall rifle rounds such as 444 Marlin, 38-55 Winchester, and 45-70 & 45-90 that I seat oversized bullets in that won't chamber easily. It is an answer to a problem that has existed as long as we have been using oversized lead bullets in brass cases. Example: load a .431 soft cast bullet in your 44-40 and chamber it, my rifles and revolvers won't accept it but the bore is severely oversized so this is my solution. Works for me!!!!!

 

[Jim Watson]

I think it was covered very well early in the thread:

"The only use for it is if you have cheap bullets, mixed brass, a tight chamber, and you don't want to check each and every one to see if they will fit before you participate in a match where failures will just ruin your score."

I can add that there is a LOT of loading done that way.

Even by me. Except that I do check each and every one of my mixed brass bulk cast bullet loads, (as well as my matched brass premium bullet loads.) If it passes the gauge, it goes to an IDPA match. If it doesn't, it goes through the CFC die and is rechecked. If it still doesn't pass, it goes to practice; unless it sticks WAY out of the gauge, in which case it gets pulled down.

 

[ilbob]

Even by me. Except that I do check each and every one of my mixed brass bulk cast bullet loads, (as well as my matched brass premium bullet loads.) If it passes the gauge, it goes to an IDPA match. If it doesn't, it goes through the CFC die and is rechecked. If it still doesn't pass, it goes to practice; unless it sticks WAY out of the gauge, in which case it gets pulled down

I run my bullseye loads through the gauge as well. Wouldn't do to have one screw up on me in the middle of rapid fire.

The few that won't go in the guage, get put through the FCD and get used for practice. Although, with my level of shooitng skill, it probably would not make a whole lot of difference.

 

[joneb]

Proper trimming and die adjustment will eliminate virtually all problems with reloads not chambering. IMO, the FCD is a solution to a problem that should not exist, but does.

I agree, I have not used the FCD's so my thoughts about this die are based on hear say.

Posted by Snuffy,

Home cast lead boolits that are purposely made oversize should not be run through a lee FCD. They WOULD be sized inside the case by the carbide ring, then they would not spring back, but the brass would. That leaves the boolit loose in the case. Crimping would do little to correct it.

This makes alot of sense to me, I rely on case tension to aid with start pressure, I don't think any of my current loads would do well without it.
When I load longer bullets in straight walled cases the base of the bullet will seat into a thicker part of the case I would not want a post sizing die reshaping the bullet's base I think this would be detrimental to it's accuracy.

 

[MMCSRET]

Once again: The FCD does not, repeat, not size the case. The Carbide Crimp Die (CCD) can size the case if the overall outside dimension of the cartridge with the bullet seated is larger than SAAMI spec for that particular cartridge. I purposely seat oversize cast bullets and then run the cartridge thru the CCD to size it to SAAMI spec. The brass case does not spring back until the cartridge is fired, at that time my soft cast bullet slugs up to throat dimension, this circumstance and chain of events is exactly what I want to happen, and it proves to enhance accuracy in oversize bores and throats. The key is oversize soft cast bullets.

 

[Walkalong]

Once again: The FCD does not, repeat, not size the case.

Both of the ones I tried did. They would not size an already sized case, but a case with a bullet seated in it was being sized down, everytime, and the loaded rounds were not over SAMMI minimum spec chamber size.

.470, .471, .4715 for the most part. .472 sometimes.

Edit : Both of the pistol Carbide Factory Crimp Dies I tried

 

[MMCSRET]

Walkalong: are you talking about a rifle case or what? please be explicit to help me understand. I own and use almost every caliber of FCD and CCD and have never experienced what you describe with the FCD and I use the 30-30 FCD to crimp 32 Winchester Special cases and the neck is obviously larger than a 30-30. Please explain, I must be pretty dense!!!!!!

 

[Walkalong]

Pistol. - My bad.

Rifle is totally different.

The Carbide Crimp Die (CCD)

Your quote from the post #65 I addressed in Post # 66. Only the pistol ones have the Carbide insert.

I see where I messed up. I saw FCD and since we have been talking about the carbide ones all along, I assumed.

I should have quoted this:

the Carbide Crimp Die (CCD) can size the case if the overall outside dimension of the cartridge with the bullet seated is larger than SAAMI spec for that particular cartridge

in front of my comment. My bad.

Put that in front of my comment in Post #66 and it makes sense.

 

[Halo]

The Carbide Crimp Die (CCD) can size the case if the overall outside dimension of the cartridge with the bullet seated is larger than SAAMI spec for that particular cartridge.

I understand this is its purpose, but in my case, and apparently others' as well, the sizing ring was making contact with rounds that weren't larger than SAAMI spec. It has me a bit confused, because I don't know if there is something wrong with my CFCD or if it just happens to size rounds down closer to the SAAMI minimum spec than does my RCBS sizing/depriming die.

Now I can certainly see how it's useful in your reloads since you are using oversize bullets, but I think the people who are using it as basically a mistake eraser for bad reloads are going down the wrong path and would be better served trying to figure out why they're having to resort to it.

 

[ranger335v]

"all i asked was if anyone used one."

The straight answer is YES, lots of people do.

That's why they are a sucess in the market, if not they would sit unsold on the shelves.