CoalTrain49
Member
My Lee die is roll crimping my 30 carbine ammo. I thought all semi-auto cartridges were supposed to be taper crimped. What's going on with this Lee Die? It came in a set of three.
Lee dies 30 carbine crimp
- Thread starter CoalTrain49
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Sunray
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.30 Carbine requires taper crimp only. Even a .30 Carbine revolver. All straight walled pistol type cases are taper crimp only. No idea why Lee would even make a .30 Carbine seater die that roll crimps. Their site indicates .30 Carbine 3 die Pistol set only.
1KPerDay
Member
Got a pic of the crimp?
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CoalTrain49
Member
The bullet has a ring because it was pulled. This happens when I back the seater out and crimp without it in two steps. It was a Lee 3 die set.
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CoalTrain49
Member
I went on the Lee website and I think I have my answer. Lee dies evidently taper crimp and roll crimp both. They lightly taper then roll. Not at all useful for a cartridge like a 30 carbine. A little too much crimp and you end up rolling it. 
Probably a cost cutting feature. Maybe a good reason to pay a little more for a better die set.
Probably a cost cutting feature. Maybe a good reason to pay a little more for a better die set.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Why would you consider then giving you both style crimps bad? It's not their fault you didn't read the literature. You need both with the 30 Carbine because when shot in a revolver you can experience bullet pull thus the roll crimp capability.I went on the Lee website and I think I have my answer. Lee dies evidently taper crimp and roll crimp both. They lightly taper then roll. Not at all useful for a cartridge like a 30 carbine. A little too much crimp and you end up rolling it.
Swampman
Old Fart
I don't have a .30 Carbine revolver, but wouldn't they headspace on the case mouth just like the rifle versions?
I have a set of Lee .30 Carbine dies and have never had crimping problems when loading for several military and commercial ".30 US Carbine" type semiauto rifles.
I have a set of Lee .30 Carbine dies and have never had crimping problems when loading for several military and commercial ".30 US Carbine" type semiauto rifles.
Play the short video
http://leeprecision.com/3-die-set-30m1-carbide.html
OR buy the dreaded FCD! (it is actually a collet style die and works very well).
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/222864/lee-factory-crimp-die-30-carbine
http://leeprecision.com/3-die-set-30m1-carbide.html
OR buy the dreaded FCD! (it is actually a collet style die and works very well).
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/222864/lee-factory-crimp-die-30-carbine
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CoalTrain49
Member
That makes sense except in a Ruger Blackhawk the headspace is on the case mouth in the cylinder. There isn't enough recoil in a 30 carbine revolver to pull a bullet that has been taper crimped. The proper crimp for any cartridge designed to be used in an auto loader is a taper crimp. It is also the proper crimp for a 30 carbine, I don't care what you're shooting it in. I suppose you would roll crimp 45 acp and 9 mm if you were shooting those in a revolver.
Lee screwed the pooch with this die.
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CoalTrain49
Member
Yes, they would. Just like any other cartridge designed for an auto loader.
carbine85
Member
The .30 Carbine is one of the rounds I never crimp. If I did I would use the Lee FCD mildly.
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CoalTrain49
Member
I like FCD's and use them on my other straight wall cases. I have one for the 30 carbine but it doesn't work anymore. I was experimenting with the seating die to crimp with until I found out it will roll the crimp with very little adjustment. I also use both coated and jacketed bullets which seat differently. I have absolutely no use for a die that roll crimps an auto loading cartridge. RCBS die sets do one or the other depending on the cartridge. I orderd an RCBS taper crimp die. Problem solved.
Swampman
Old Fart
I've loaded quite a few cast bullets in .30 Carbine. I use a Lee universal expander to bell and the Lee .30 Carbine seat/crimp die to crimp (I seat, then crimp in two separate operations as an SOP with cast bullets).
I haven't had problems with the standard Lee crimping die when used in the above manner. It removes the bell and allows the round to chamber without resistance.
If I'm loading jacketed I chamfer the case mouths, shove bullet in far enough for proper C.O.A.L. and call it good.
Why are you trying to crimp a non-cannalured bullet anyhow? Particularly into a case that headspaces on the case mouth?
I've never really tried it on jacketed bullets, but I bet if you back off on the die it would take out any bell you might have and that's really all a good taper crimp is supposed to do. I know the Lee die works that way with cast bullets sized at .309".
.30 Carbine can be pretty weird about proper case length. I never even check length on .45 ACP or 9mm, but I run my Carbine cases through the trimmer every time I resize. I also segregate by headstamp, some are thicker than others and that can affect crimp as well.
I haven't had problems with the standard Lee crimping die when used in the above manner. It removes the bell and allows the round to chamber without resistance.
If I'm loading jacketed I chamfer the case mouths, shove bullet in far enough for proper C.O.A.L. and call it good.
Why are you trying to crimp a non-cannalured bullet anyhow? Particularly into a case that headspaces on the case mouth?
I've never really tried it on jacketed bullets, but I bet if you back off on the die it would take out any bell you might have and that's really all a good taper crimp is supposed to do. I know the Lee die works that way with cast bullets sized at .309".
.30 Carbine can be pretty weird about proper case length. I never even check length on .45 ACP or 9mm, but I run my Carbine cases through the trimmer every time I resize. I also segregate by headstamp, some are thicker than others and that can affect crimp as well.
dredd
Member
I have the Lee 3 Die Set and the FCD.
I have not crimped a case yet.
I load FMJ Boolits and bell the case just enough to get things started.
After seating the boolet, I am sitting at the desired case mouth diameter.
As already mentioned, I trim my cases after every sizing & deburr / chamfer.
I'm very happy with the ammo the die set has been producing.
I have not crimped a case yet.
I load FMJ Boolits and bell the case just enough to get things started.
After seating the boolet, I am sitting at the desired case mouth diameter.
As already mentioned, I trim my cases after every sizing & deburr / chamfer.
I'm very happy with the ammo the die set has been producing.
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CoalTrain49
Member
Why are you trying to crimp a non-cannalured bullet anyhow? Particularly into a case that headspaces on the case mouth?
I think taper crimping a non-cannalured bullet is pretty common. I taper crimp my 45 acp and 9 mm for obvious reasons. I don't really see any difference between 30 carbine and those cartridges, they all seat on the case mouth.
I think taper crimping a non-cannalured bullet is pretty common. I taper crimp my 45 acp and 9 mm for obvious reasons. I don't really see any difference between 30 carbine and those cartridges, they all seat on the case mouth.
I don't load .30 Carbine any more, but I did for more than twenty years. I never crimped (taper or roll) the rounds since it is a round that headspaces on the case mouth.
The only problems I ever had was related to the fact that some of the surplus 30 round magazines I had would not feed soft point bullets into my Universal M1 Carbine; FMJ was fine, but not Soft Point. But none of that is related to whether or not the cartridge was crimped..
The only problems I ever had was related to the fact that some of the surplus 30 round magazines I had would not feed soft point bullets into my Universal M1 Carbine; FMJ was fine, but not Soft Point. But none of that is related to whether or not the cartridge was crimped..
Swampman
Old Fart
Unless I'm loading cast bullets, I don't crimp 9mm or .45 ACP. I don't load many jacketed bullets in those calibers, but the ones that I do load seem to seat fine without setting the expander die low enough to actually start Belling the case.
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CoalTrain49
Member
I can get by without crimping if I don't bell my cases, but I do so I taper crimp. What I've noticed is this die will start roll crimping with the slightest crimp adjustment. I've examined the case with a magnifying glass.
It's not a big deal, it just seemed very odd to me that it would do that. Maybe people requested that feature and that's why they build them to do that, don't know. All I know is it doesn't work for me and I've solved the problem. Lee builds good stuff, I have lots of their dies and a classic press. Never had a problem with any of their gear until this. I'm still going to taper crimp, just not with this die. Still going to use it to seat with.
Thanks for the input.
It's not a big deal, it just seemed very odd to me that it would do that. Maybe people requested that feature and that's why they build them to do that, don't know. All I know is it doesn't work for me and I've solved the problem. Lee builds good stuff, I have lots of their dies and a classic press. Never had a problem with any of their gear until this. I'm still going to taper crimp, just not with this die. Still going to use it to seat with.
Thanks for the input.
GooseGestapo
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Years ago I was given a set of Lyman .30Carbine dies.
When I aquired a '43 Saginaw I Match prepped to shoot in CMP matches, I bought a set of Lee dies and a .30carbine FCD die. I also shoot cast bullets.
I size with the Lee carbide dies for the obvious reason. I expand the brass (new Armscor for big match) with a Lyman M-die to eliminate the coke bottle effect, and ensure bullets seat straight. Followed by light crimp with with the Lee FCD. This further improves the run-out, and gives a light consistent crimp.
My Carbine will hold the 10-ring on the SR-1 target at 100yds, most in the X prone. Strangely, it likes the Armscor 110fmj better than a Sierra! Who'd have thunk?
Btw, the Carbine case is tapered and headspaces on the case mouth. Hence, the Lee FCD DOES NOT size down the case head with a carbide ring, rather relys on the shell holder to force the "fingers" into the tapered die body to effect the crimp.
For those challenged by spelling, look up the difference in "affect" and "effect". It does make a difference. If you'd had my 11th grade chemistry teacher, you'd never forget the difference. Something to do with the "EFFECT" caused by the AFFECT of vinegar on baking soda...
When I aquired a '43 Saginaw I Match prepped to shoot in CMP matches, I bought a set of Lee dies and a .30carbine FCD die. I also shoot cast bullets.
I size with the Lee carbide dies for the obvious reason. I expand the brass (new Armscor for big match) with a Lyman M-die to eliminate the coke bottle effect, and ensure bullets seat straight. Followed by light crimp with with the Lee FCD. This further improves the run-out, and gives a light consistent crimp.
My Carbine will hold the 10-ring on the SR-1 target at 100yds, most in the X prone. Strangely, it likes the Armscor 110fmj better than a Sierra! Who'd have thunk?
Btw, the Carbine case is tapered and headspaces on the case mouth. Hence, the Lee FCD DOES NOT size down the case head with a carbide ring, rather relys on the shell holder to force the "fingers" into the tapered die body to effect the crimp.
For those challenged by spelling, look up the difference in "affect" and "effect". It does make a difference. If you'd had my 11th grade chemistry teacher, you'd never forget the difference. Something to do with the "EFFECT" caused by the AFFECT of vinegar on baking soda...
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