Lee Dies for beginner...3 or 4 die set?

[JW in Ohio]

I have the Lee Anniversary kit and am ready to get started. I've read the ABCs of Reloading and Lee's Modern Reloading, read the forums and the manuals that came with the kit, but still have a question on which dies to buy. I'll be reloading 38 Specials. The Lee Dies come in 3 and 4 die sets (the 4th being the Lee Factory Crimp die). Do I need the Factory Crimp die for 38s? They also offer the "Speed Die", but reviews have not been good.

Later I'll be doing rifle loads. Any different advise there? I would call Lee and ask them, but I would rather hear from unbiased users. Thanks.

JW

 

[Lennyjoe]

Factory crimp is better served with autoloader rounds such as .45, 10MM ect. You can also use the factory crimp for rifle rounds.

For revolver loads I would use a roll crimp instead.

I have never had a problem with Lee dies. So far I use them for all of my reloading. Only non Lee dies I use is an RCBS neck sizing die for my -06 and 22-250.

 

[HSMITH]

DON'T get the FCD. You don't need it number one, and number two if you are just starting out you need to learn to adjust dies correctly rather than cover up the mistakes with the FCD.

Get a 3 die set and holler if you have any questions.

 

[Uncle Don]

DON'T get the FCD. You don't need it number one, and number two if you are just starting out you need to learn to adjust dies correctly rather than cover up the mistakes with the FCD.

Get a 3 die set and holler if you have any questions.

Even though I'm a fan of the factory crimp die is some situations, I agree with this advise. There are videos on the Lee website to help you set them properly.

 

[Rabid Rabbit]

I have the three and wish I had the four. I use the turret to develop pistol loads and would just prefer having the option of using the FCD or not, or a place to put the universal decapper.

 

[Jim Watson]

I've always loaded revolver ammunition in three dies. If the bullets and the seating die are properly designed and adjusted, you can seat and crimp at the same step with no adverse effect.

If you insist on using plated bullets you will need a fourth die to apply a gentle taper crimp to the slick little devils.

 

[Rico567]

I loaded with the regular 3-die sets (carbide sizer /decapper, expander, and seat / crimp), beginning with a Lyman set I bought for .38/.357, more years ago than I care to admit. They work just fine. However, since I also use plated bullets, there is definitely a point in what "Jim Watson" says regarding a separate crimp die. And, if you're going with a separate crimp die, why not make it the Lee FCD? I have added the fourth FCD die to all my pistol sets, not because I can't adjust dies, but to eliminate the final pass of the loaded round through a gauge. By the way, I just started using the Lee FCD in .45 Colt, and it puts a great roll crimp right in the crimp groove.

I have used the FCD enough now to be confident in reporting on its performance. In reloading .40 S&W, for example, one or two loaded rounds in 100 would be marginal in not quite going all the way into the gauge. Now they all do, and I have eliminated one step from my process. Res ipse loquitur.

 

[Merkin.Muffley]

I use the factory crimp die on 45 acp - haven't needed it for 38 spc/357.

 

[snuffy]

3 varieties

There are three distinct differences in the lee FCD. For auto pistols, the FCD is a taper crimper. For revolvers its a roll crimper. For bottle neck rifle and handgun brass its a collet type crimper that pushes the extreme front edge of the neck sideways into the bullet/crimp grove.

The first two have a carbide final sizer that irons out any lumps or bumps caused by bullet seating. Those can and do cause the finished round to fail to pass a guage, or fail to chamber completly.

What HSmith is referring to is that IF your sizer die is bringing the fired case down in outside diameter enough, and IF your expander is NOT over expanding the mouth, THEN you will have enough bullet pull,(neck tension), you won't need a heavy crimp. By matching bullet diameter and expanded neck diameter, you can get enough of a grip that you can go with no crimp! It may be necessary to regulate the expander diameter to achive this.

In auto loading pistols, enough neck tension is very important to prevent bullet set back,(seating the bullet deeper upon loading into the chamber), the results are elevated pressures caused by the smaller combustion chamber the deeper seated bullet causes.

Some people rely on the FCD to "fix" all the mistakes caused up to the final die. It CAN apply a heavy crimp that MAY hold the bullet from being pushed further into the case by reciol in a revolver or by the bullet striking the feed ramp in an autoloader. Much better to have the neck tenison do the job. The only crimp you "need" in any auto handgun rounds is to remove the belling required to get the bullet started into the case. In revolver rounds, especially magnums, a heavy roll crimp helps let the slow burning powder get a chance to burn before the bullet moves.

 

[Bronson7]

My take on it is this: Get a standard carbide die set of your choosing ( they're all pretty good) and a separate standard roll crimp die. Make rounds, load rounds, shoot rounds. If all is fine, you're set (and forget about the FCD). If you can't get the bad boys in your cylinder due to bulges in the case, then look for the reason why. If you're going to load cast bullets, the FCD is a bad idea (to me, it's a bad idea in any case). Some folks love the thing; me, I have no use for it. The only set-back round I ever had was when I was using the FCD and thank God my gun didn't go into battery.
Bronson7

 

[YellowLab]

Get the 4 die set, its not much more expensive than the 3.

If I remember correctly a good crimp for revolver rounds was required because each shot it like an inertial puller on the bullets in the case. Autoloaders need a crimp due to the rougher feeding.

The FCD is easier to set than a taper or roll crimp, and you do not need to worry about a crimp ring with the FCD either.

Get the FCD, use it, and shoot lots of ammo. It definately wont hurt anything.

 

[snuffy]

every caliber I load for

I should have started out by saying I have a FCD for every caliber I load for. One reason is; they do NOT depend on having all your cases the same length. Of course I trim my rifle brass to uniform length, so that's not the point, but for handgun,(especially autoloaders), I don't trim at all.

If you have an oversized lead bullet, the FCD COULD end up sizeing the bullet at the same time it final sizes the brass. That would result in a very loose bullet, the lead would size down and stay that way, the brass would spring back.

 

[HSMITH]

Well done snuffy, you covered the positives and the negatives from an objective point of view. Posts like yours are more rare than I would like to see but we can't have everything we want.......

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Get the four die set. The cost difference isn't very much and if you decide you want to use the FCD, you'll have it. You may decide you want to add a level action rifle in .357 to yourinventory. If I'm not mistaken, the .38 special dies also reload .357. So if you buy a .eve action, the heavier crimp could come in handy.

Regards,

Dave

 

[YellowLab]

Just how tight a crimp are you using if it will resize a lead bullet?

An improperly sized bullet, or an improperly set FCD is something that should be corrected, not used as a reason to not FCD when it will have no negative and only positive results.

Factory crimp can only be a plus, not a negative. I would not go through the extra step on a single stage press, but in a turret or progressive and you have the open hole, fill it with a FCD, it cannot hurt anything.

 

[Bronson7]

Yellowlab, I believe it's pretty well known that running cast rounds through the FCD greatly increases the force required to pump the handle. Why? It's because the round is being post sized, irrespective of the crimp. Cast bullets are oversized for a reason and running them through the FCD, in my opinion, negates the reason for their dimensional difference. I really believe that when using cast bullets there is a risk of decreasing case neck tension due to springback effects mentioned earlier. I've measured a few cast rounds before and after going thru the FCD on 45 ACP. The FCD decreased the outside diameters by .001-.0015". To me, that's unacceptable for reasons stated thus far. I know a lot of folks are disparaging this notion but I feel it's necessary to give the other side of the equation. I like the way the FCD crimps, so much so that I called Lee and tried to get one without the sizing ring but was unable to do so.
Bronson7

 

[Uncle Don]

I think it's a double edge sword. I agree with Yellow lab but Bronson 7 makes a valid point about sizing down a properly cast bullet. However, there have also been cases in which the bullet was to oversize to allow the gun to go completly into battery and the FCD alleviated the problem.

I use lead quite a bit in 45ACP and I don't use the FCD on that caliber because I haven't found it necessary, however I do use it for 9, 40 and especially for .357 SIG. Without the new style fcd for that caliber, I probably wouldn't load out of fear of setback. After over 2000 rounds now, not a hint of setback and a good biproduct was that the extreme spread over the chronograph reduced substantially.

 

[JustsayMo]

FWIW;

I use the 4 die set for 45 Colt and 44 Remington Magnum. I like it VERY much.

I use the LEE 3 die set for 38 & 357 and I wish I had the 4 die set.

I use the 3 die set for 45 ACP and I'm content with the results.

 

[YellowLab]

I really don't hear a lot of problems of cast bullets plooping out of brass that have been run through an FCD. Again, with high power revolvers you need a bit of tension to keep the heave bullets still in the brass when firing.

There are some dimentional changes with a FCD..... but again, not a log of cast bullets plooping on the ground.

The proper use of a FCD can only make a cartridge better. If its set wrong, well then you are simply turning out crappy ammo. Given the tighter tolerances required to roll/taper crimp (brass length becomes critical) a FDC does is all with a greater margin of saftey.