Lee FCD sizing every round

[nofishbob]

This was what I posted on a related thread earlier in the week:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
On my FCD, loading 45 ACP, it resizes EVERY round, and not just a little. Obviously, something is wrong. It sure makes my LNL press a lot of work to operate, with a lot of handle force.

I have reloaded and shot around 1200-1500 rounds made like this with no problems in my Glock 21.

When I get back home later this week, I will check to see if rounds not FCD'd will chamber, and if a factory round will contact the FCD. I am pretty sure my FCD is undersized. If this is the case, I will either get another FCD (hopefully the right size), or experiment with just eliminating the FCD altogether.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I did some checking with the following results:

Factory Winchester rounds slip into the FCD with no resistance...a perfect fit.

A case resized with the Hornady sizer, but without a bullet, also slipped right into the FCD.

A completed round will not enter the FCD at all with finger pressure

A case and bullet previously sized with the FCD will not go back into the FCD with finger pressure

All completed rounds, both with the FCD and without, fall freely into and out of the chamber of my Glock 21.

The bullets are the difference, and are making the case bigger. If you look closely, you can see the case bulge where the bullet is.

The Hornady 230 gr RN and 230 gr XTP bullets both measured .4515 as close as I could measure.



Any suggestions are appreciated!


Bob

 

[zxcvbob]

My suggestion would be to not use the FCD. For tapered pistol cases like .45ACP, it's a solution in search of a problem. Just crimp with the seating die. I bought one once for .45 Colt, and it didn't fix the problem I was having (caused by undersized bullets.) So that die was a total waste of money.

I did buy a FCD just last week for .357 Magnum because sometimes my loads won't chamber in revolvers with tight cylinders (cases bulged by deep-seated bullets).

The rifle FCD is a totally different beast. I don't have an opinion about it

 

[rcmodel]

Measure the O.D. of your loaded rounds, before sizing in the CFCD.

If the O.D. is within the SAAMI spec of .473" mouth, .476" just ahead of the rim, it don't get no better then that.

If you are squeezing them down more with the CFCD, you are also squeezing the bullets down.

And you might be anyway, if your brass has thick necks.

rcmodel

 

[mkl]

The chamber of the gun in which you are going to shoot your reloads is the ultimate case gage. Since the ones without passing through the FCD work just fine in your chamber, I'd just quit using the FCD and use the Hornady seating die to remove the bell in a separate step -- in other words, seat all the bullets first, then adjust the crimp shoulder in the Hornady down (with seating stem all the way out) to remove the bell and straighten the case mouth back to normal.

I seat and crimp all of my handgun cartridges in separate steps. This is easy for me since I use a single stage press. You can seat and crimp in one step, but die adjustment is much more critical.

 

[Halo]

Since the rounds completed without the FCD freely slip into the chamber, why use it? This is the conclusion I'm coming to in my own similar situation. I'm going to replace it with an ordinary crimp die that doesn't do any sort of post-sizing.

 

[wingman]

I've had good luck using the LFC die on 45, 40, 9mm and 38, I prefer to seat and crimp in two operations. If your round is going in very hard you may be expanding too much. It will vary somewhat depending on brass but should not require much effort.

 

[nofishbob]

Thanks, guys.

The completed rounds measure around 0.4715 to 0.4720 at the mouth.

The factory round is about 0.4705 at the mouth.

I am going to eliminate the FCD for a while and crimp with the seating die.

Bob

 

[zeke]

It makes a difference what case and bullet you are using. Combining a thicker case like starline, with a larger dia lead bullet can make for some tough sledding.

 

[Halo]

What's odd is that with mine, the FCD is doing the resizing down right above the extraction cannelure, nowhere near the bullet (9mm). All those cases were already sized when I deprimed them, so it's still puzzling me why the FCD is sizing them down further. It must have a smaller sizing ring than my sizing/depriming die has. At any rate I can't really come up with a good reason to use the FCD and agree with those who call it a solution in search of a problem. I've gone over to the Dark Side.

 

[Walkalong]

If the O.D. is within the SAAMI spec of .473" mouth, .476" just ahead of the rim, it don't get no better then that.

Absolutely!

The completed rounds measure around 0.4715 to 0.4720 at the mouth

That is right about where mine end up as well. I measured some of mine with various bullets and came up with:

.470, .471, .4715 for the most part & .472 sometimes.

I use a very light taper crimp. I use the Redding Taper Crimp only die for .45, but any crimp die will do. I use an internally polished Lee .38 Super seater minus the seater plug to Taper Crimp my .38 Supers in a 4th step.

I would not dream of post sizing those little jewels.

 

[fastbike]

Well, I'm not having any trouble with Lee dies including the FCD for my 45 acp. They all go bang in the Kimber and eject just fine.

If the FCD is significantly resizing, either it's adjusted wrong or the bullets are way off. If the bullets are bulging your cases, then maybe your sizing dies are off.

 

[pistolero6869]

Lee FCD

If your completed rounds drop into you glocks chamber your good to go. I gauge mine and some need fcd others do not.

 

[Steve C]

The FC die only will size any part of the case that's of greater diameter than maximum allowable. The normal sizing die sizes cases under maximum by quite a bit. The only way the case gets over sized is if the bullet diameter and case thickness combine to make it so or if bulging the case when you seat the bullet. I use the Lee FC die almost all the time on semi auto calibers and most of the time if the sizing ring touches the case its only a small kiss.

 

[pinkymingeo]

If you think 45acp takes some handle force, wait til you try 44mag. When I first got my LnL I quit using FCD's for a while, both because of the additional force required and due to interference with the ejector wire. As I got familiar with the machine the handle pull became normal, so the FCD's went back in station 5. To clear the ejector wire I have the dies set high, resizing only about the length of the bullet, with the crimping collar shimmed to get enough adjustment. I've now switched from the #1 to #45 shellplate, and use a Dillon sizing die with my Lees. The machine turns out 45's in a blur.

 

[Walkalong]

The FC die only will size any part of the case that's of greater diameter than maximum allowable. The normal sizing die sizes cases under maximum by quite a bit. The only way the case gets over sized is if the bullet diameter and case thickness combine to make it so or if bulging the case when you seat the bullet. I use the Lee FC die almost all the time on semi auto calibers and most of the time if the sizing ring touches the case its only a small kiss.

That is the way it was supposed to work, and the way it was advertised when it was introduced, but it's not working out that way in the real world for a lot of people.

Lee must have sold a BUNCH of Carbide Factory Crimp Dies with undersized inserts.

 

[Down South]

I was having the same problem with my 357 Magnum boolits using the FCD. I’m shooting an over size boolit at .359”. That’s what my Ruger GP 100 likes. The FCD was swaging my cast boolits down. I like to seat and crimp in separate stages. I took a punch and knocked the carbide ring out of the FCD. No more problems.

 

[Z-Michigan]

What's odd is that with mine, the FCD is doing the resizing down right above the extraction cannelure, nowhere near the bullet (9mm).

9mm Luger has a significant case taper, so the FCD is touching the wider part of the case near the base. You'd have a major problem if the FCD was touching anything higher up!

I have used FCD for 9mm and .38 Special, after sizing with other Lee dies, and the FCD carbide sizer does not even touch the cases. This is how it's meant to work. But of course, if you consistently have no need for post-sizing, you really don't need the FCD anyway.

I recently bought some Lee .223 dies where the bullet seater was WAY out of spec, by almost half an inch. It may be that Lee quality control isn't great, and maybe some FCD's do have an undersized carbide ring. This is a quality issue, not a design issue.

But I'm fairly unconvinced of the need for the FCD anyway, as long as your sizing operation is done right. I'm not sure I'll be buying any more FCD's.

 

[zeke]

There may be other possibilities, including the following. The resizing die is "off set". The belling die is "off set". The seating die is "off set". When setting up the re-sizing die, how are you insuring it is straight on up ?

Lee is not unlike other manufacturing companies, sometimes off spec products go out the door. I have 2 30 carbine LFC dies, that will not crimp a by the book min sized case.

Depended on LFC pistol die for many years. And yes, they do wear out.

Lately have been going with a Redding comp seater die , and Redding profile crimp die for revolvers.

 

[jimbob86]

The LFC die for pistols works differently than the one for rifles? How so? I have the LFC dies for my rifles, and like it. I was contemplating getting one for my pistols, as repeated chambering of my carry ammo has resulted in some of the bullets being set back a bit... this would cause case volume to diminish and pressures to spike, no? At a buck a round, I hate to throw them out..... I plan on partially pulling them and re-seating them with the LFC...... thoughts?

 

[Walkalong]

Lee link. It shows the difference.

 

[zeke]

jimbob86- When adjusted down far enough,the LFC for rifles can produce a "stab crimp", similiar to some old style military crimps. The rifle dies to not have a carbide ring that sizes an out of max spec case bodies.

Pistol LFC dies are not "seating" dies, but only crimping and post sizing.

You don't specify what your "carry" ammo is, but have only run across one factory 45 acp "factory round" that did not set back when fed by a slide locked back in 45 acp.

To be more specific in attempting to answer your concerns, it would be helpful to know specifically what pistol brass, sizing die, sizing die set up procedure and bullet you are using.

P.S. the chamber of your pistol is not the ultimate sizing guide, especially not a Glock chamber.